Who are you voting for?

[Canerican]

I am quite curious about this after reading a thread at Vdrums.com. I think that I have it narrowed down to John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee. In that order. I actually volunteered making calls for Rudy, but he has upset on almost every issue I care about, plus I am starting to think that he is more corrupt than your average politician (although in Tom is from NJ, so he might be able to enlighten us some more about corrupt politicians :D)
I am actually quite interested, 2008 will be an interesting year. Even the Congressional votes will be really interesting. I see Republicans gaining at least 1 seat in the Senate (they will certainly win LA. and likely SD, but possibly lose a seat in Maine) in Congress they have potential to gain 5 seats (a couple in NY, TX, CA are strongly leaning R, but held D)
With the war doing better (I guess President Bush was right that Iraq would turn around, which I was even starting to doubt, but now I am convinced) I think that the Republicans are in a good position to win big in 2008. Republicans seem to be doing really well with the American people on immigration. Democrats don't really have anything but health care because the Iraq war is setting up to be a non issue, and if you look up health care in the past, its not that popular with the American people, it has been tried many times since the SS act of 1939...
Anyway. Maybe I should change may title to who do you think will win. :)

[OverLord]

As a knee-jerk liberal I must say that they all scare me. I will have to vote for Dennis Kucinich since he is the absolute wackiest of the bunch and has no chance of winning. I am really looking forward to the day when we could elect a woman or a person of color. The time is right, but the candidates are not. The Democrats could have had a sweep here if they realized that most people live closer to the center. I have more in common with my Republican friends then the Democratic candidates.

Here is the Render Political Spectrum(tm).
CWJ........DC.........M.....RF....RC.............. CWJ

CWJ = Complete Whack Jobs
DC = Democratic Candidates
M = Me
RF = Republican Friends
RC = Republican Candidates
CWJ = Complete Whack Jobs

I might seriously have to vote Republican or Libertarian this time.

[Canerican]

Yeah, if a guy like Truman, LBJ, or even Bill Clinton were running I think that the Democrats could take every state except Alaska and the Bible Belt, and a couple midwestern states, but 300+ electoral votes would be easy in the climate for a centrist Democrat. The truth is that Rudy is probably the only real centrist... But I don't really like him.

The health care issue seems dumb to me, most Americans know that when the government takes control of something, it doesn't ever cost you less... It's likely the opposite.

[TAKnipe]

I agree with Overlord about the color and gender issue. I am probably in with Fred Thompson this year or Mike Huckabee. Mostly because they are the closest thing to true Conservatives that are running. I am not a Rudy fan due mostly due to abortion and the immigration issues and I am sure a few more to. I want to see a bit more from Mitt before I choose up finally. Kind of dissappointed this year, I need the Buchanan in the race to get fired up!!! lol ;D

[WildWes]

I typically vote republican, but don't always agree with the choices of that party.

However, regardless of your political affiliation or whether they have control of congress/senate, your candidate will probably not be able to deliver much of what they promise. ::) It's amazing how fickle some voters can be on what influences their vote when you consider how many external factors (ie, terrorist attacks, weather disastors, military conflicts, economy downsides, etc...) can affect how a president is judged by history as being great or terrible.

With that said, I'll probably vote republican again, but I'm not very satisfied with the current choices of either party. :o

[TAKnipe]

I agree with Wes, I wish there were maybe a Blue Dog Democrat in the mix and one more true Conservative. Just as a matter of choice. The problem is General election electability. Only one of the Dems have it and he isnt going to be the Party choice. So its left to Freddy T not to blow it. I am either with Fred or Mike. Havent decided completely.

We really do need a bigger deifference in our choices.

[OverLord]

What do you guys think of Biden?

[Canerican]

I think that whenever he gets played in the media he's saying something really stupid, like about Arabs working at Dunkin Donuts. I don't like his politics either.
I really think that Democrats aren't attacking Huckabee because they see him as an easy kill (that's how Drudge put it). And he might be the more I learn about him, the less I like him, which isn't a good sign. McCain shouldn't be counted out, I hated him on immigration, but he says that his view was a mistake. It's hard to tell if that's true.
What issues are important to you?
I am really against abortion, I want strong security (that mean that terrorists don't get the rights of US citizens), I want a President who will stop illegal immigration.
If I get those three, and the candidate has proven to be honest, then I have my candidate.

[TAKnipe]

Ahhh Joe Biden, I dont care for him much, he is always attacking folks. He is very very partisan and has a bad temper. He also likes to admonish folks during senate hearings and loves to lecture. He comes off as pompous and arrogant. Other than that he is ok.. lol :o

[BobbyMck2]

What is the vote for ??? Can you tell I'm from the UK ???

[TAKnipe]

Bobby, We are discussing next years Presidential election. I am sure this thread will be active through till next year. A few of us here are passionate observers. I have a deep love of politics as it relates the process and the behind the scenes stuff. I have loved it since I was a young child. Feel free to chime in, we probably could be very interested in UK politics also. T ;D

[BobbyMck2]

I'm afraid I am very cynical about politics and politicians. My view is anyone who puts themselves forward for public office should be automatically banned. The idealism of individuals wanting to work for nothing other than the greater good of the majority, just doesn't wash with me. They are all out for what they can get. "Keep the people dumb enough so they don't ask any difficult questions" should be their motto

[OverLord]

I'm afraid I am very cynical about politics and politicians. My view is anyone who puts themselves forward for public office should be automatically banned. The idealism of individuals wanting to work for nothing other than the greater good of the majority, just doesn't wash with me. They are all out for what they can get. "Keep the people dumb enough so they don't ask any difficult questions" should be their motto

You are so cynical. Too bad I agree with you. Most politicians have a single goal - get re-elected. That makes long term solutions very hard to enact. And the different parties exagerate the small differences so you don't see how actually similar they are.

[WildWes]

And regardless of the party, neither would ever admit the other had a good plan to solve a problem. :-\

[Canerican]

Oh plenty of Republicans admit that they loved JFKs tax code. And I don't mean that tongue in cheek.

I also think that throughout the years the Democrats have offered some of the best Presidents.

[RLRRL]

Mike Huckabee...but sad to say it will probably be a wasted vote :-\

[TAKnipe]

I am reading up on Huckabee. Dont ever feel your vote is wasted, thats one of the reasons I am a republican instead of a Libertarian. I want a say in the primaries and I want to vote for my candidate. I havent had a candidate win yet but I consider that a very important step.

I have the unfortunate circumstance to live in New Jersey. The home of corruption and Extreme Left Wing politics. But I vote in every election and it makes me feel good that I am in the minority here. Afterall the state gets worse every day and the Democrats get elected more and more every day. Hell someone has to pay the frieght.

We finally abolished the Death Penalty here in New Jersey but we still are number one in abortions. Atleast we are number one in a few areas, taxes, property taxes, illegal aliens, killing innocent children, pay for play, smog, terrorists and so on. Someone proposed that are state motto should be:

The last one out please turn off the lights!

Sad state of affairs here but I still register my formal objection once a year. I wear my seatbelt and hope John doesnt.

BTW, Welcome to the forum RLRRL great to have you. Tom

I am leaning towards Freddy T. Actors have done a good job in the office in the past. ;D

[Canerican]

Huckabee has a nasty streak, he has attack Mitt's religion which is just wrong. Huck also wanted to grant Arkansas illegals the same college tuition assistance that is given to people in this country lawfully. (As a legal immigrant just 3 years ago I can say that I loathe anyone who wants to infiltrate this country illegally. THere is a process to get here, follow it! And I had to learn to become fully American and learn the culture quickly, so should anyone else - and they shouldn't play the victim when people tell them to speak English).

I am looking back at McCain, he has been endorsed by Lieberman, the Boston Globe and the Iowa paper (I think its the Enquirer). McCain has an amazing rating from the ACU, he is against abortion, he is for the war. He was a POW (not a fake hero), I believe him when he says that he wants to kick out MOST but not ALL illegals. That seems reasonable.

If you look around there are people who have said that if Huck gets the nod they will not only not vote for him, they will vote for the Democrat, because that way we can see the true Liberal policies and get a true Conservative in 2012. If you look back there has been one two term Democrat President in 40 year, that is Bubba of course - Liberals can get elected, but they usually lose their place when their policies are seen.

I can't vote because I am not a citizen, but I can donate and I can raise funds, and I can organize events, if McCain or Romney or Thompson get the nod, I will absolutely help them out.

A big plus is that McCain has polled the best head to head against Democrats. Might as well throw your primary vote at him, he's a true Conservative except for one issue, which he seems to have changed on, and he's electable.

Exit question: Is anyone else feeling that Populist views similar to Bill O'Reilly's should be in the Republican Party? I do, I think that taxes on the highest tier need to be raised and taxes on every other tier lowered. I am talking mostly about estate taxes - Horatio Alger is popular with Conservatives because he taught that anything can be achieved in America through hard work - yet today success in America is getting tougher and tougher unless you start in a position off power. Even with a college education success in America is getting tougher and tougher.

[Canerican]

I gotta say, I am solid McCain now.

Some Conservatives don't like him because he believes in Global Warming. I don't. So what? I would rather a Conservative try and solve this faux problem with free market solutions than a Liberal with Socialism.

That's all I really have thought of. Also, McCain is tough on terror and he was right about Operation Iraqi Freedom before Bush was.

As for the Democrats, Obama seems OK, but he is certainly a divider. He voted along Democrat lines 97% of the time. But his message is a good one for anyone. He would be my favorite Democrat. That being said, I want Hillary to be the nominee so that we have a chance of a Republican White House in 2008.

I even think that a 50-50 split Senate is very possible if not likely. The GOP has its sights on four seats that could possibly flip under current conditions, and 2 likely. (Mainly ND and LA) THe Dems have 5 possible flips (VA, CO, ME, MN, and OR) But I would only call 1 likely

Just some thoughts.

[OverLord]

I think I am going to vote for Kucinich. It's my way of saying that I don't care much for any of the top candidates. I wish there were more centrist underdogs that I could vote for in protest. Or a "none of the above" box.

[TAKnipe]

Michael, I might do the same with either Fred Thompason or Rob Paul. I dont know yet. Maybe Ralph Wiggum is my man in 2008 :)

[Canerican]

I think I am going to vote for Kucinich. It's my way of saying that I don't care much for any of the top candidates. I wish there were more centrist underdogs that I could vote for in protest. Or a "none of the above" box.


Move to Michigan "None of the above" was pretty popular there. ;D

I don't think Kucinich is really a centrist, I would think of Ron Paul or Mike Gravel as the most centrist out there... You can tell they are the most centrist because both parties hate both of them...

[amonline]

You guys are a little early with all this, aren't ya? ;)

I really wanted to see Fred Thompson get fired up... he was too slow.

I'll probably be undecided till around Feb 2009, given the current rack of losers.

If Fred comes back for VP under McCain, then I'll be very happy.

There's just something about Romney I don't trust.

[TAKnipe]

You guys are a little early with all this, aren't ya? ;)

I really wanted to see Fred Thompson get fired up... he was too slow.

I'll probably be undecided till around Feb 2009, given the current rack of losers.

If Fred comes back for VP under McCain, then I'll be very happy.

There's just something about Romney I don't trust.


Alan, Good point, Mitt looks too perfect plus he is a NorthEasterner and I dont trust anything from here and I am a North easterner lmao. But McCain irritates me, where are the conservatives???????? Ron Paul might be the last candidate for me seeing as he is one step removed from a Libertarian. I can live with isolationism and fiscal conservatism for 8 more years. Just cant imagine the alternative, almost makes me want to vote for Kankles so we can ensure the laughter of the 90's and relive all the past Clinton scandals. I have a feeling that she has a few more skeletons in her closet than whats out there. It will be fun to watch either way.

[evil1rox]

...alright... I'm putting up my umbrella now...cause I'm about to feel a rain of **** comming down on me...

I'm for Barrack Obama.

-Yes I'll admit it. (I like Canerican cannot vote. I'm not a citizen yet either, permanent resident though) I want Barrack in office..

Why? Barrack-tober of course.

Seriously though, I think he'd struggle at first and then do just fine. In my (naive) eyes, he hasn't had enough time to be as corrupt and build as many connections that he'd have to answer to as most of the career politicians he's running against. He's pure still...or as pure as a politician can get.

I wouldn't EVER give a vote to Hillary. Remember White Water? Remember the "I did not inhale/have sexual intercourse" administration? She was a part of all that... and I want no part in that.

If in the position that they were in...they weren't smart enough to cover that up properly or thought they didn't have too...how the hell are they going to talk China out of whatever they have planned for us? With Barrack...he's so freshfaced...he'll speak his mind instead of being reserved/cutting backroom deals.

-Maybe I'm looking through rose-colored glasses... but so what.

I think the winner will unfortunately be Mrs. Uberdyk...uh..Clinton facing off against Johnny Mac. (That's what John McCains homies call him. ;))

-I do have to say... I loved the stock market during the Clinton years!!!

E1R

[WildWes]

...alright... I'm putting up my umbrella now...cause I'm about to feel a rain of **** comming down on me... I'm for Barrack Obama.

Were you aware that as a muslim candidate for the President of the United States, Barrack Obama turns away from the flag during the national anthem and refuses to place his hand over his heart. Regardless of a candidates religious preference, I would like to think if the people of this country are going to place their trust in his/her decisions, that candidate should at least acknowledge the symbol of the country they wish to be responsible for. Funny how few liberal newspapers and networks won't show that on the news.

I have read that radical muslims have stated "we will eventually defeat you from within". Something to think about.

[kevincool87]

Were you aware that as a muslim candidate for the President of the United States, Barrack Obama turns away from the flag during the national anthem and refuses to place his hand over his heart. Regardless of a candidates religious preference, I would like to think if the people of this country are going to place their trust in his/her decisions, that candidate should at least acknowledge the symbol of the country they wish to be responsible for. Funny how few liberal newspapers and networks won't show that on the news.

Whoa, really? Oh man that's just so funny :D What a complete joke...

I have read that radical muslims have stated "we will eventually defeat you from within". Something to think about.

lol XD All the citizens that vote for that guy should seriously be background checked.

[BobbyMck2]

I have read that radical muslims have stated "we will eventually defeat you from within". Something to think about.

Yeah! so will HIV

Sorry if this has offended anyone

[TAKnipe]

LOL, Bobby, nothing offends me. Even though I am disappointed in the latest crop of RINO's (Republican In Name Only) I think no matter who wins the GOP that they are unstoppable in the General Election. The Dems really have themself a pickle this general election.

The simple fact is, when there is a woman or a african american in the white house they most certainly wont be from the Democratic party. They always like to say that they are the party of change yet when they get in nothing. The party of no. I am no fan of G.W. Bush but advancing minority participation in Government no one can deny that he did the most of any President. I am afraid the left has such a fragile coalition that they cant make it through a general election with two minority and heavily flawed candidates. Edwards was the best shot at a general election and even he is an easy target to impune. He is the most likable and hes a lawyer.

I cant wait to see the V.P. choices.

My Prediction: it wont be a late night this year..

[amonline]

It's the right time for a female or african american... just the wrong candidates...

Wes is correct in everything he said... thus, I will NEVER vote for Obama. He's not an "American". ;)

[OverLord]

Just some interesting charts from Political Compass.

Here is the spectrum of our 2008 candidates.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/usprimaries_2008.png

Here are some historical figures for reference.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/axeswithnames.gif

Notice how nodbody falls in the center. And although there is a definite left/right difference in the Democratic and Republican candidates, they are still packed rather close.

[evil1rox]

...alright... I'm putting up my umbrella now...cause I'm about to feel a rain of **** comming down on me... I'm for Barrack Obama.

Were you aware that as a muslim candidate for the President of the United States, Barrack Obama turns away from the flag during the national anthem and refuses to place his hand over his heart. Regardless of a candidates religious preference, I would like to think if the people of this country are going to place their trust in his/her decisions, that candidate should at least acknowledge the symbol of the country they wish to be responsible for. Funny how few liberal newspapers and networks won't show that on the news.

I have read that radical muslims have stated "we will eventually defeat you from within". Something to think about.


Wes...

I was NOT aware of that...

I wonder how an AMERICAN citizen...RUNNING to be president of the UNITED STATES cannot pledge to it his allegence.

That's bull****.... Grrrrr. I don't care if you're black, white, orange, Christian, Muslim, Baptist, agnostic etc. If you plan to run for President...your country and it's needs should come first...not your personal bull****.

Wes, do You know of any websites etc that have captured this behavior for all to see? I'd love to see this and pass along to my fellow left leaning friends! (Thanks for the tip by the way... I had no idea!)

You know...that Huckabee character is looking better and better...

E1R

[OverLord]

Allright, lets clear some stuff up. Obama is not a Muslim. He did not use a Koran to be sworn in.
He did, in fact, not put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. About 50% of the time he doesn't.
ABC broadcast video of it. How is that a liberal coverup.
He did not turn from the flag. He was looking the same direction as everyone else on the platform.

The problem with lies is there is a grain of truth to them. He didn't cover his heart, everything else is bull****.

[evil1rox]

That's very different than turning away.

I don't put my hand over my heart either. I just don't...the heart is not where emotion comes from so whats the point other than symbolic.

....

Some clarity is needed here. I got up in arms over the turning his back thing...but as I recall...he's not a Muslim.

E1R

[TAKnipe]

There is still debate on whether hes a Muslim or not? I know I came late to the argument about Obama but heres the bottom line, if you like him vote for him lol if not vote for someone else. rofl

I still dont even know who I a voting for yet. But it definitely wont be for a winning candidate. Thats my 2 cents. Writing in Michael Reagan ;D

[WildWes]

Obama is not a Muslim. He did not use a Koran to be sworn in.
I don't recall saying he used the Koran to be sworn in. In fact, I'd expect it if his religious preference was Muslim. By the way, what is his preference?

He did, in fact, not put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. About 50% of the time he doesn't.
In my profession, it's been my experience that people tend to be creatures of habit and either do or don't do things consistently. Why 50% of the time?

ABC broadcast video of it. How is that a liberal coverup.
Not that I have the ability to scan all the networks, but ABC airing a video or photo doesn't constitute widespread coverage of the observation I referenced. I'll be the first to admit different camera angles can change a perspective on things.

He did not turn from the flag. He was looking the same direction as everyone else on the platform.
The photo I observed did not show him facing the same direction as Hillary and Edwards (not sure it was him though). If I locate it I'll post it, but I'm bad about deleting things quickly.

The problem with lies is there is a grain of truth to them. He didn't cover his heart, everything else is bull****.
The truth about bull**** is both the intended target and assailant with be wearing some. If he's elected and turns out to be perfect for America, I'll be the first to write you and say so, Michael. Regardless of their political and/or religious preference, it's going to be a long road for the next President.

[color=blue]Damn!, now I'm responding like Bruce. Guess, I'll go spend some quality time-out at the V site.

[OverLord]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp
Here is a site that shows both a picture and a video. Notice that everbody but Richardson is staring the same way.
Which means they might ALL be wrong since the flag is BEHIND them. Heh.

I am not a fan of Obama politically, but I tend to overreact since I get a lot of anti-Obama spam. I don't mean to get pissy.

[WildWes]

Thanks for the link Michael.

I do feel we're in need of some fresh ideas in the office, but not sure it's from him yet. Like many, I haven't come to terms with any of them and it appears 2008 is going to be a long year. Hope it works out for all of us. Wes

[TAKnipe]

Really dont get alarmed seeing that, but not for the reasons you may think. I find so much of the extreme left anti - american but, even worse, what I find mainstream is often referred to as extremism. So the Obama thing seems to be kind of mild.

In reality my vote wont count for much in New Jersey anyway, we have a true Paradise here. Havent even smelled the 2 party system in years. So what we have is absolute corrupt unchecked power. The most unfriendly business state tax wise, middle class in the rest of the country cant even afford a house here. But we kept being told it will get better, but it never does. To me any Politician that openly says that we need to raise taxes needs to be tried for high treason. :)

[amonline]

Ah, faithful ol' Snopes. I fell to the hype. :'(

I believe that people are free to make choices. Choosing to cover your heart as a pledge to our country should also be a choice. As I think about it, I find myself wondering "what does it really mean"? I mean really, what does a hand covering a heart truly mean? Does it mean I just "dearly love" or does it carry a meaning of worshipfullness or devotion? I guess I think it simply carries a "pledge" to what you may be stating at the moment.

Next, this "controversial" video isn't even during the pledge. It's during the national anthem - simply, a song about our country - nothing more. Not to even mention the fact that whoever sang it completely murdered it.

But again, let's really think about this gesture. What does a hand over the heart really mean? In my personal opinion, it should only be paramount during an actual pledge. If someone chooses to cover their heart during an anthem, then so be it. As I think back, I'm not even sure if I make "the gesture" during the anthem regularly. I'm probably in the 50 percentile bracket more than I think. I can say that I know there are times when I don't do it and it's usually because I am in complete awe of how an anthem is being shredded at the moment. You know, maybe it's simply more important to me that the damn anthem be sung correctly?!?

In reflection, I take back what I said about Obama. I was dupped and fell along side other typical dumbasses. I'll have to look at his stance on the issues more and do some research. I know what I saw yesterday... a man riding the coattails of Ted Kennedy - a man riding the coattails of a long lost brother - a man riding... I think you get the picture. Marketing is a funny thing.

[OverLord]

While we are on the subject of National Anthems...

We need to change ours. No normal person has the range necessary to sing it. "America the Beautiful" would be a much better choice. Admit it, how many of you guys get to "and the Rocket's Red Glare" and have to drop down a fifth or an octave? Or just mouth the words?

[Canerican]

Yeah, the Barack Obama email is more false than true. But he won't wear an American flag lapel pin, I find the reason stupid, but he says that people shouldn't hide behind their pin to feign patriotism, he is a patriot because of his ideas. That is an obvious strike at Republicans because many of the most Liberal Democrats say that Republicans really aren't patriotic and just hide behind the American flag.
I know what I saw yesterday... a man riding the coattails of Ted Kennedy

I would never want to ride with Ted Kennedy, there is a good possibility of drowning. :o

Back to Barack. I think that his religious choice might be an issue, I mean tell me that this doesn't sound like Malcolm X
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/barack-obamas-church-ultra-left-and-afrocentric

[Canerican]

The simple fact is, when there is a woman or a african american in the white house they most certainly wont be from the Democratic party. They always like to say that they are the party of change yet when they get in nothing. The party of no. I am no fan of G.W. Bush but advancing minority participation in Government no one can deny that he did the most of any President. I


Oh, you listen to Rush (Limbaugh)

Awesome! Am I right?

[TAKnipe]

Actually, I like Rush but dont listen as much as I would like to. These opinions I have came from studying politics post WW2. Anyone that knows me knows I revel in the strategy of politics and also the nonsense that goes on.

I became a Republiterian when I couldnt reconcile the difference between the opposition to the Death Penalty and the Abortion issue. Still cant either you are for both or against both. I tend to be in an unpopular camp in either debate because you have alot of folks who are for and against one or the other. Very rarely do you find either side for both or against both.

Still dont get it and probably never will. Thats the beauty of politics, just smile and wave. No shame in disagreeing or a lively discussion. As long as folks know that your most likely not going to change anyones mind about an issue. I reserve the right to change my mind when I feel like it!! lol :-*

Thats the main reason I wanted no topic to be considered taboo. So much of our view points and who we are come from every different aspect of our lives. Why cant we discuss issues like this in the same manner we discuss edrums or a meal or the weather. Thanks for the great discussion guys, this makes this place worth every penny. ;D

[evil1rox]

Ok...Barrack (or however the hell it's spelled) is my candidate again...if I could vote.. ;D

That whole refusal thing really got my dander up (yup I said dander) but I should have done my homework instead of pledging not to give my non-vote to someone else.

Barrack-tober is back on! ;)

I have to admit though... I do like McCain and Huckabee...a lot. (I would consider myself a true centrist...so yes I'd throw votes away regularly if I could.) Romney...no offence to anyone... just looks like a Snake Oil salesman to me. He hasn't done anything worng...he just has a slickster used carsaleman look to me.. so he doesn't get my non-vote.


E1R

[BobbyMck2]

In the UK we don't have the death penalty. I however do believe in an eye for an eye. If there is no doubt that someone has went out and murdered someone in cold blood. I see no reason the death penalty is not justified. But there must be no doubt (like being caught red handed). As for abortion. If you look at some of the squallier, junkie, criminal families, babies are being born into. Sometimes abortion should be mandatory. Some people are not worthy of having the responsibility of caring and looking after a child and bringing it up to live in a decent society

[TAKnipe]

Hey Bobby, I can see if you fundementally believe in both, just not so in the states. Here is where the difference lies here,

Death Penalty- Most from the left feel it is equal to state sanctioned murder. Most from the right feel it is a deterrent and not used enough.

Abortion- Most from the right feel it is Murder or at the very least manslaughter. Most from the left feel it is between a woman and her choice.

I generally have a problem with the abortion issue because it never takes into account the other party in the baby making process so unless the law comes with a provision for male abortion I cant buy into it or two party consent. In general americans prattle on about rights but very often they dont have the remote inkling about rights. The only people here without rights are fathers, fat people and a few select groups where it is still legal to either deny rights or ignore the issue because no one cares.

Republitarians, No Abortion and No Death Penalty!! LOL

[Canerican]

There is a fundamental difference.

Abortion: The baby didn't do anything wrong and is just getting killed.

Death Penalty: Its a punishment for something done wrong. If a baby rapes and murders someone, then I will support abortion

[BobbyMck2]

A fetus often aborts naturally. Note the distinction between a fetus and a baby. Going with your logic, no baby asks to be born. So why are they allowed to be ? If a girl is raped or just becomes pregnant though the natural course of events, and is unable to cope with a baby. She has the right to termination. This is a decision that is never taken lightly, and one she will have to live with for the rest of her life. In an ideal world, every child would be born into a loving caring family. The world we live in, is far from ideal. Why subject an innocent unborn baby to a life of misery, when the humane thing to do is put it to rest before it even takes a breath. Choice is one of the fundamental building block of a free society. That must include a woman's choice if she wants to devote the rest of her life to a child or not. Nine times out of ten a man can simply walk away, that means only one in ten, a woman has this choice. So abortion evens the scales..... but just a little

[TAKnipe]

Bobby, As a father and someone who has some experience with the topic, I can say that I have never uttered the word fetus in my personal life. I guess it comes down to what is in your heart, I could never abort anything in the name of expediency. Just my opinion.

Maybe sometime I will relate a personal story surrounding Tommy's (My 13 month old) and the decision we faced 5 months into my wifes pregnancy and how we dealt with it. I dont often put much stock in personal feelings when dealing with topics that are best rationally talked about without emotion but it might shed some light on how people really feel about children.

The mettle man is best measured under extreme pressure and emotional duress.

[BobbyMck2]

Tom I am also a father. My son was born when I was only 16. We never considered abortion as an option. That was our personal choice. This is the point I am trying to make. There are no hard and fast rules. It has to be left to the individuals in that unique situation and circumstance to decide. It's about freedom of choice. What was right for us may not be right for the next people. So why should my decision be forced upon them. If I was forcing people to have an abortion, it would be thought as criminal. Flip the coin and the same goes. forcing them not to, must also be criminal.

[drum4ever]

I will throw my hat in with the anti abortion bunch. Also, I am highly opposed to a morally bankrupt infanticide financed against my will with my tax dollars just so poor women will have the same right to oops- redo baby killing as wealthy ones.

On the presidential front, I could have gone with Fred but he waited too long to start (seemingly on purpose). Can't do Romney. Absolutely will not do Hilary (the ladies man) or Obama (the sleeper). That leaves Huckabee (already pegged by the media as the ultra-conservative rendering him unelectable, though I voted for him in the primary) and McCain (where I'll likely end up). I just wish one time in my life a candidate I actually like for the job would make it to the general election.

As to time for a black president, we missed the boat when we didn't get J.C, Watts to run. Same for the women when we didn't get Elizabeth Dole. The right person will come along but not this time.

[TAKnipe]

I was for Fred but it just didnt pan out this time. I would vote for J.C. Watts in a heartbeat, ultra conservative and a good common sense man and plain spoken. I dont know enough about Elizabeth Dole but cant imagine she would be conservative enough for me.

Part of me wants to see Hillary in just to secure another long line of Republican Presidents. The thing that turns me off about most Democratic politicians is that when they speak about change. They really arent interested in change they are strictly interested in power and adding votes.

How can anyone Republican or Democrat not want a secure border. And the speeches about cheap labor when in reality not having cheap labor only would elevate salaries for the poorest since it involves supply and demand. There is a crisis coming soon to this country involving not money but a healthcare shortage. If the government (State) keeps forcing hospitals to treat indigent patients with no hope of being paid for services there will be a collapse. As of now the state has a right to keep some hospitals open without proper funding, who is paying? In New Jersey's case we will all pay until the money runs dry. So many problems could be avoided with the use of yellow school buses, Louisiana didnt use them and now we are unwilling to ship illegals home in them and solve are biggest crisis. Very sad state of affairs politically.

[evil1rox]

Well I guess I'll chime in...

Abortion...I'm against it. I could never get pregant though so I don't think I have the right to impose that on someone else. I DO NOT think it should be treated like a contraceptive practice as it is currently.

Rape - woman's choice. No chance of the child making it past 2nd trimester and the womans life is in danger - woman's choice. ... but that's about it. I can see where a crack head having an abotion makes sense...but I also see where it's not the "fetus's" (baby's) fault and should have to answer for the parent's sins.

I am sooooooo glad I was born with a wang and will never have to make this choice.

Personally though...that's not the big ticket issue. I want illegals out, jobs in, the economy up and jobless down.

I'm an immigrant and still a Canadian citizen, but permanent US Res. I did it the right way, and so did my mother. Do it right or get out. Nobody handed me cash jobs cutting lawns, help finding housing etc. Get in the right way. PERIOD.

Get rid of the "migrant workers" and there will be plenty of jobs for the homeless. (I'm not saying that's a cure all...but it would be a start.)

NAFTA... who did that help...?

-just some things to think about and random musings. I'm very surprised abortion hasn't been mentioned much in the primaries yet...must be waiting for the party nominations to bring that one out of the bag.

-This is the most exciting Presidential race so far that I can remember though! (I'm rooting for a McCain/Obama slugfest!)

E1R