How does the DTX3 Compare to the TD20?

[bornstudios]

Hey guys, I'm brand new to this forum, but I'm very close to buying a DTX3 Special and stumbled across your site. It's been between the Roland TD20 and the DTX3 for a couple of months now. The Roland unit is a bit dated, but in the end I just want whatever is the better module and pads. I've listened to some of the DTX3 files and can't help but notice that some of the drums sound a bit "machine gun" on faster fills. Is this just the way it is with any drum module? I've played acoustic drums my whole life and the e-drum thing is a bit weird to me, but I need to get in more late night practicing! How does the sound of the DTX3 compare to the Roland TD20, especially in the area of "machine gunning".

Also, anybody know if you can input two or three mono pads into one of the stereo inputs on the DTX3? I e-mailed a guy at Yamaha and he said the only input you can "Y" is the kick input. There's got to be a way to utilize the 4 extra stereo inputs for multiple mono pads. I wonder if this involves some special cabling with resistors and so forth, which I'm not sure how to do. Anybody with the DTX3 out there yet have any ideas or able to test this?

Thanks!

[Axe_Grinder]

I am probably not the best one to answer this... hopefully some one more informed will come along.

As for splitting some of the inputs... i know on the 2s you were able to split the 4 aux inputs with just a standard 'Y' cable (no resistors required)


The TD-20 IMHO is a phenomenal module... I am very much looking forward to the TDW-2 Expansion. However, from what I have heard and seen of the DTXtremeIII it too is fantastic. I suppose it depends on what strengths you are looking for. They are two entirely different animals.

Machine gunning - Both modules will achieve this for you. Your settings have to be perfect for your style of play. Not to mention there is a certain element of compromise with playing edrums... I know I for one, have learned to expand my hits all over the head trying to eliminate machine gunning. I can't be the only one. There is a right and wrong way to play Edrums and it certainly takes a little learning curve. However, between learning how to use your trigger parameters and subtle little playing differences it can be eliminated.

Regarding sound - As I said above, I love the TD-20.... but that is just personal preference and I have nothing to compare it to as I have never owned a DTXtremeIII... I did own a 2s and found that the stock sounds vs' the the TD-20 stock sounds were entirely different... I don't know quite how to explain this to you... they are from a different perspective... like two different engineers doing the same thing... It's going to sound different.... It is up to your ear on what you like. Back to machine gunning a moment.... The Roland uses what they refer to as Positional sensing to try and eliminate it.... the Yamaha uses velocity layering.

I would not base your decision on machine gunning. As you learn your settings this can be eliminated.


Both modules are fantastic. I fully intend on eventually purchasing a 3rd module, which will be the DTXtreme III


As I said above, I can only help with what I am familiar with... and someone more knowledgeable should come along shortly.


Good luck

-R-

[Axe_Grinder]

Can't believe I forgot to mention this... in my personal opinion. The Yamaha cymbal sounds blow the TD-20 out of the water and that's back from when I had my 2s and I can only imagine they have gotten better on the III. However, the 2s compared to the 20... drum sound wise.... I found myself leaning torwards the 20.

A nothing thing to consider.... and I don't know if Yamaha got this sorted out or not.... but, the 20 was far better when it came to midi. I hope yamaha got this sorted out... as I never would of gotten rid of it if I could had used it without all kinds of double triggering and lack of cymbal choking in Superior.

However, this only matters if you intended on going midi out to a computer and using external sample libraries.



-R-

[TAKnipe]

Hey Bornstudios, As Ron I used both modules in the past but now I use 2 yamaha DTXtreme3. I want samples and features so in my mind there is no better module than the Yamaha modules. I love good cymbal samples and just always found the Roland modules not being able to replicate the kind of shimmering quality cymbals I want in my kits. With the sampling module I can have any sound and sample I want at extremely reasonable prices and with ease.

There probably is a book that could be written about the differences between the two modules. I am sure if you ask certain questions we can answer anything you like.

The initial demos you heard were without tweaks for my playing style and I have since toned down the gain a bit and the tom sounds are really nice. But no matter what module you purchase you will need to spend time with them and personalize them. If you want to practice and to play midi songs from the module then there is only one choice the Yamaha.

I will expand on this whole topic in a little while. Tom

[bornstudios]

Thanks guys for your responses.

I suppose with adjusting the velocity sensitivity and so forth you could get a much more natural sound depending on your playing style to avoid "machine gunning". That makes sense to me anyway.

Back to "Y" on the aux. inputs - from my understanding you could Y on the IIs, but the IIIs is designed to take the new 3 way cymbals or pads - which I'm thinking may cause problems when trying to Y (and thus why the Yamaha rep said you couldn't - but maybe he just isn't sure...). I still think there is probably a way around this, which would be cool. My acoustic kit is a 9 piece double bass with a myriad of cymbals. I'd like to replicate it on an electronic kit if possible (without breaking the bank too much and having a second module!), so I'm trying to figure out if I could squeek out every possible mono input (3 on each aux input would be great, but 2 would be OK). You know, splashes, bells, chinas, gongs (ha! just imagine a big 'ol 6 foot rubber e-gong) etc...

I like the idea of sampling my whole kit (each drum and cymbal) and using the DTX3 to trigger it. That to me is a huge advantage over the TD20. Do any of you guys know if you can do your own (and how to do it) velocity layering for your own samples? ...i.e. from a light cymbal hit to a hard one, light snare hit to a hard one, etc... Not just volume velocity, but where you actually have several recorded layers where a light hit was recorded, then a medium, hard etc...

I am leaning towards the DTX3, but for the longest time I wanted the Roland. I don't think the mesh heads are all that great anyway. They're OK, but a bit too bouncy for me sometimes. The Yamaha rubber feels a bit better than the mesh to me, but then again I haven't played on either of them for a whole practice or show. I guess that's a whole different can of worms...

Anyway, everyone's input is much appreciated!

Thanks

[Axe_Grinder]

"I like the idea of sampling my whole kit (each drum and cymbal) and using the DTX3 to trigger it. That to me is a huge advantage over the TD20. Do any of you guys know if you can do your own (and how to do it) velocity layering for your own samples? ...i.e. from a light cymbal hit to a hard one, light snare hit to a hard one, etc... Not just volume velocity, but where you actually have several recorded layers where a light hit was recorded, then a medium, hard etc..."


Yes, this is more than possible and from what I remember with my 2s and it wasn't all that difficult to do. If I'm not mistaking they have made it easier with the 3.



"I am leaning towards the DTX3, but for the longest time I wanted the Roland. I don't think the mesh heads are all that great anyway. They're OK, but a bit too bouncy for me sometimes. The Yamaha rubber feels a bit better than the mesh to me, but then again I haven't played on either of them for a whole practice or show. I guess that's a whole different can of worms..."


On mesh you tend to learn to use the mesh to your advantage. You can eliminate quite a bit of that bounce through various methods, foam, patches...etc. A lot of people like the mesh due to it being easier on your wrists. Personally, I rely on that bounce and have learned to use it to my advantage.

Additionally, the Yamaha rubber has it's advantages too... 3 distinct zones that can be used for anything and trigger distinctly.

Again, a lot of this comes down to preference... I would highly recommend going to your local shop and sitting down with both kits for a very good duration of time before making your decision.

Back to sampling, sampling is an AWESOME feature... but remember, it's not far away in respect to external sampler like the motif or for that matter software samplers... HALion, Battery....etc. My point is you could achieve this with both modules with enough playing. You also don't have to lock yourself into one kit. Who says you need to buy a full kit... You could buy a DTXtreme and Pintech or Hart pads or even build them yourself. For that matter you could convert your acoustic kit.

I for one would be happy to walk you through the process. I am currently making up a very large tutorial with part numbers and links to everything that is needed and how to do it. I am however the first to say, I am just learning. However, this is easier than you may think.


I am not sure if you are aware of these sites or not... but I would check them out.

For the TD-20 - http://www.vexpressionsltd.com/td20.html

For the DTXtremeIII (or any sampler for that matter) - http://www.drumwerks.com


Don't let anyone tell you what YOU should do... in other words don't take my advice or anyone Else's... just listen and take from it what you need. You're the one dropping major change here. Educate yourself. Beat yourself with knowledge, read the manuals, search the net, bug the crap out of the guys at GC, not to get info... most of the time these sale people are the epitome of uselessness. I mean go hit some drums and grab a pair of headphones for God sake... you will concentrate better and that place doesn't need anymore noise - lol



-R-

[bornstudios]

Hey guys,

Thank you for your replies, you've been helpful. Thanks for your insight Rogue. I haven't been back here in a couple of days...working a lot of extra hours to pay for a new kit!

Still curious to know if anyone has tried to split one of the four auxillary inputs on the DTX III into two or three mono pads with success (with separate trigger sounds for each pad).

Thanks!

[TAKnipe]

I have not done any splitting yet. I am working to get the mesh dual piezo pad to work using the Raper circuit for the rims but that is the extent. All of us are having a busy time. I am sure if you contact Keith Raper from the dtx forums on yahoo he would be able to tell you how (if possible) on how to split the inputs. I dont really know if you would want to, there seems to be plenty. Good Luck, Tom K