Posts

[TAKnipe]

I am about to detach myself for good from that other site.

I dont like the selective justice that seems to go along with whatever wind is blowing at the time. The fact that you have to watch every little thing you say so not to offend the masses. When it offends someone else it is glossed over.

Off Topic crap runs rampant but selectively prosecuted. You people are the Mike Nifong's of Forums!!!!


It would probably be best to pull all of my posts from there and repost them here. I like it here, I and everyone else has the freedom to express themselves.

[OverLord]

It is interesting what makes them uncomfortable. Many posts veer off topic, but I actually felt the whole Behringer thing was well contained. All the posts were about the purchase of gear and the thoughts that go into them. Nobody was making ad hominem attacks. There was a lot of difference in opinion, but that is par for the course.

[amonline]

Okay, I am confused by what you could possibly be mad at.

First, you participated in a topic where you chose to argue over a signature and lead the topic further off course. It took the thread away from a topic where members could learn more about Behringer and what to expect should they choose to purchase their products. Years ago, when I was looking for gear on a budget, that thread would have been very valuable to me until it reached the point where members were arguing over signatures, politics and other corporations.

Next, I stood up for you and others when I agreed that Jeff closed the thread without giving proper warning. Because I agreed with you and others, I took the time to reopen the thread so you all could continue participating and providing valuable information... information that was beginning to leak into another non-related thread... information that would have been extremely valuable in the original thread.

What I don't understand is that you supply the above dissatisfaction because you either want to argue about the original thread being closed, want to argue with others about their signature, their opinioins or politics and are upset that we do not want to allow it. So, I simply do not understand what you continue to get mad about. You may take offense to this very post when I am trying to simply understand what it is you really want. What "subtle hint" were you referring to? The simple request that others act like adults and not as children? There was nothing wrong with my take of the situation. Your opinion of me being biased is uncalled for. What am I biased about? Human kindness and respect for others? There is no "selective justice" on my part. I am simply upholding rules and trying to keep members happy and participating in the largest v-drum related forum on the net. Is there any reason why that's wrong?

Tom, I like you and I think you're a nice guy. The problem is you think everything is "just poking sticks in each others direction and seeing what comes out usually what comes about is something absolutely hilarious and informative." It is not. We have hear people report being attacked regularly. When this happens we have to take uncomfortable action. The actions we take are to better the community and you do not seem to understand that or want to. We do not want to have to take action at all, but if we do not, we simply let a forum run amuck until it runs other members off with unnecessary rudeness.

I do this for free and the better of our community and you want to reprimand me for it? You're right, off-topic posts do run rampant sometimes. They will on any forum. We allow them when they are not offensive to members or potential members. Had I just purchased my V-Drums and visited that site only to read that thread and where it was going, I would have thought twice about participating.

I hope you respect me for my opinion of this entire situation.

[OverLord]

I personally try to get along everywhere and I am probably the polar opposite of Tom when it comes to all things political. But one point he was trying to make it a very subtle (like a brick) Knipe-like way was that there appears to be an inconsistent application of rules. I have had to change my signature because people found it offensive. But those "offensive" terms have appeared in other signatures without consequence. There is a great deal made about how the board is not political, but attacks on George Bush are permitted. I know Tom has had to change his signature because of the political content. So all Tom said was that he found the user's signature offensive. I am sure Tom has thicker skin than that, he was just making a point. Would it have been better for Tom to petition a moderator to have the signature removed? That is open for debate.

Tom is an opinionated loud-mouth (and I wouldn't have him any other way) and as such he acts like a bellwether for our moral conduct.

[amonline]

I understand and believe you Michael. I am going to look more into the signatures at the forum. Actually - we discussed, about a month ago, a rule stating no political reference in signatures. I dropped the ball simply because I could not come up with something that didn't sound stupid. Again, I will look into that concern.

[TAKnipe]

Allan, I didnt care for the blatant reference to me in a post when you guys sat on your ass and let that asshole get his liberal friggin jollies off with his bull**** bumper sticker and his sniveling, snickering and condescending tone. This wasnt the first time this happened, you all were silent except behind the scenes with the Avatar incident involving Spanner. Then with DarrenMC you let him post a PM in a thread and left it there. After a while the silence is deafening. I have really thick skin but I dont care for unethical behavior when it comes to members and Moderators. I simply dont run and tattle to you guys I wait and see what happens. And yes today I am pissed, theres no need to reference me in that post at all. Anyone knows if they have a problem with anything I say or do, do it openly not in some obscure way.

I didnt find anything wrong with Jeff's closing down the thread (I didnt agree with it) but I didnt have a problem with it either. He did what he thought was right. I see folks picking on him also and taking potshots at him. Not a word, silence is deafening. And yes it seems as if there is a bias there. I guess its not a problem if your to the left.

After this site opened I got emails from folks feeling me out seeing where this was going. At no time did I ever say I was competing with VDrums, the idea was to have a community where it wasnt so brand specific and where you dont have to listen to folks bash a certain brand for whatever axe there is to grind. It all seems unsavory and yet I took it here, I didnt make a big deal of it over there. I expressed what I felt about it here. Thats why I own this site. Allan feel free to do the same, you are always welcome here and encouraged to tell me to go **** myself whenever you feel I am out of hand. That is and will always be the point.

I have made subtle and not so subtle references over the past few years to invoke different emotions. i dont hide my political gender, I dont hide behind cliche's and my friends range from all sides. I mean the first person I thought of to Mod this thing was Michael, he will tell you what his political leanings are just ask. I assure everyone that we probably dont agree on much. I wouldnt have it any other way, hes as good as anyone for the job and as a human being there isnt anyone better. We dont usually talk politics although I respect his right and encourage him to express whatever that point is whenever he feels like it. I will guarentee that his judgement would never be impaired by politics or his personal feelings when dealing with an issue here. There in lies the point, I think you folks look the other way and are very biased in your judgement when dealing with certain folks. I think certain Moderators look the other way when it suits them and can barely hold there contempt for certain folks.

In that thread I was debating a small portable mixer (purchased the alesis mulimix8usb) to go next to the kit and be a mobile recorder so I was intently looking and listening especially to Grog's comments and everyone elses. When Ginger is involved I enjoy the rhetoric and the politics and whatever else is discussed it might get out of hand a bit but I dont believe it has ever been nasty or leading to nasty. I think he knows that. I did ask Ginger a serious question and he answered it, it went no further, ofcourse there was needling because its fun and when he does it its not offensive.

I will end with this, I dont make a dime from electronic drums, I enjoy them and enjoy a community where all are free to speak not just about drums but drummers and life in general or just crap if they are so inclined. I have made alot of friends at VDrums and by doing this. You guys can do what you like over there its not my site. I feel like now when it suits me I can respond over here. Dont make me unleash the 800 pound Gorilla, I though about it I really did, then I stopped thinking about it!!! We all know he is in the room waiting to rear his hairy balls on us all!!! (This is humor for all of my friends who are laughter challenged) ;D

[amonline]

Tom, I appreciate your response. However, I have to say that I am not aware of many things you have spoken of. There seems to be some other issues that may be going on that I am not party to. I guess this is due in part that I/we do not read every post that is made at the forum. I generally check out new posts of interests, delete spam and dupe posts, answer member questions and PMs and pop in on long threads just to make sure something fishy isn't up. That's pretty much how I ended up in the threads we are discussing.

Until earlier this week, I had only followed the Behringer thread in its infancy. I remember reading it the first few days it started and all was well. From then on I stepped away from it. It seemed to be going fine. When I came back to it today and caught up from earlier this week and more specifically, the middle of last week, I realized what had been going on and why Jeff had chosen to close the thread. Did a few days go by where we missed some heated discussion about signatures? Yes. As I said before, we do not get to read each post. If you felt there was an issue brewing with another member, you should have reported it to one of us. We would have taken care of the issue immediately. You cannot wait until days gone by to throw it back in our face that we neglected you. After all, you seemed to be doing just fine from the tone of your responses.

As for a PM posted in a thread, avatars and other long past issues, all I can say is the same thing above aplies. I have no clue what you are talking about in these, but if you do not take the time to report these concerns, we cannot take care of them. Quite frankly, you and I both know if you bring an issue to me - it will get resolved. It has happened before and I am probably one of the only Mods that took care of your concern swiftly. Why have you not approached me before about these other things that concerned you? That's what I am there for.

At the same time, you state that you "enjoy the rhetoric and the politics and whatever else is discussed it might get out of hand a bit but I dont believe it has ever been nasty or leading to nasty". Tom, you cannot have it both ways and then run from the board to ***** about it. You either have an issue with a subject or type of comment and bring it to the attention of the Mods so we can take action and improve our forum, you ignore the comments and stay on topic most of the time or you fight back with comments that usually make the situation worse. I hate to say it, but you have chosen the latter nearly every time. Why do you do this until you get mad and stomp away? Either live with your choices or help improve the forum by helping to take care of issues like these.

I hope you understand where I am coming from and continue to be a part of our forum. I would appreciate you being able to bring your concerns to me. I will do my best to use these concerns to improve the forum. I apologize if I missed any other important concerns in your post.

edit: I received the Moderators approval regarding political content and signatures. The rules have been amended and an announcement has been posted. Please do your part to help us turn this around.

[TAKnipe]

Allan, I have never come to the Mods for anything at all regarding a members Signature, I am not the kind of person who runs and tattles on folks, I spoke my peace in the thread, it was ignored from above and I felt as well as a few others that It was condoned. Afterall, I have had contact with you guys before where others have either complained about subject matter or sig content or an avatar. But I have never complained under cover of darkness about someones sig or anything for that matter. The way your post sounded was as if there was arguing over signatures, the tone is dismissive and not appreciated in a post where I was out front and polite (at first) asking a fellow member to rethink the content. Remember, I have kept mine clean for quite some time. If afterward I decide to take mine to the next level, then I get cold to the situation. If the rule is no political crap in signatures then I am fine with it.

[amonline]

I went back and read my post, the thread and I see what you are referring to now. You are correct that I took the signature part of the thread as the main focus. I feel it was instrumental in pointing, once again, where things can quickly digress. By the time I read a few more pages where the thread approached a whole new topic again (corporate America ethics), I had seen enough. The signature argument was the freshest thing in my mind. I did comment on it and I can see how you took it personally.

What I want you to know is as I wrote my post, I did not write the post at you. I wrote the post with the feeling of discust with several members and how, once again, people could simply not get along in a valuable discussion. You, particularly, were not on my mind as I wrote.

That's really all I have to say. I hope you understand.

[TAKnipe]

Alan,

I appreciate your response, I didnt think you meant it, but at that point I was so pissed off it didnt matter. I have no idea what the process is over there in terms of what Mods do what types of duties. When I look over there, I know I am in the minority politically. That doesnt bother me at all, its the lack of tolerance that the left shows for other opinions. Statements of fact go unchallenged which I know to be a big pile of bull pucky. I sometimes read and laugh because of the hypocrisy of the left being so intolerant.

When I spoke of the flea market mentality It is funny that there seems to be a lack of understanding where the Law is clear about certain patents and copyright infringement. I will make this clear once more, I dont make a dime from edrums. Anything I have done for folks have been a wash. I dont much care for Roland but I do respect there intellectual property as far as their patents go. I see some trouble at VDrums in the future in that area and hope that someone can reign that in before it gets out of control.

The most amusing thing in the behringer thread was most of what behringer does is what we do every day in the DIY area, reverse engineer and make it cheaper. Now if you do it for yourself I dont think its a problem but when you start selling them and blatantly thumb your nose at Roland then I think there might be issues later on. Now I do feel confident that I could sell shells if I was so inclined but there isnt a market for custom VShells as far as I can tell. But I do feel badly for Ed because he owns the site and is a sponsor and folks are selling out of their house using the forum as a jumping off point. (I am not referring to VEX or a few others here). It is disturbing on some levels. Ofcourse this wells up and eventually spills over from the complete lack of common sense and what I referred to as the flea market mentality. I like to keep the moral high ground when it comes to this stuff, notice that on my website there are no prices for stuff.

I think thats why I named this the edrum forum, I want to make sure I keep an eye towards respecting others intelectual property, especially folks we know and have friendships with (VEX comes to mind) and VDrumLib. That goes for Roland and Yamaha and any other company we discuss here.

Thanks for responding Alan I appreicate your sentiment, T

[Relayer]

Mr. Knipe,

With all due respect, the squeakiest wheel gets the grease. In my short time at Vdrums forum - some 30-odd posts - I've managed to ascertain that you are: Pro Life, Republican, a fan of Rush Limbaugh, of the opinion that liberal Hollywood celebrities routinely splatter fur-wearers with blood, and that you enjoy poker. And this info was garnered by reading only your post in threads that are of interest to me. Makes one wonder how many times you've interjected your belief system into various topics where the only focus should be on drums. It comes across as hubris, with an intent to provoke and/or indoctrinate.

The Powers-that-be at Vdrum forum have decided that this type of behavior is disruptive and counterproductive. If they've overlooked any of this blowhard stuff from the left, I'm sure it was unintentional and will and should be dealt with accordingly. To immediately scream "bias" and leave the forum is petulant, to say the least.

Sincerely,

Steve

[TAKnipe]

Steve, First of all welcome to the forum, and call me Tom. I am all those things you mentioned. I believe in a few simple principles:

I am proud to be what I am and where you got the information is mostly from signature content. I usually dont interject my belief system into threads without provocation. Most of the time it is after reading something dripping with leftism that will normally go unchallenged. I will challenge your use of the word indoctrinate in this instance, because of the sheer numbers of liberals in this world on on VDrums it is impossible for me to indoctrinate, thats what college professors do and why we have so many indoctrinated leftists in the world today. There happens to be one person that watches every move I make soley based on my politics and I find it amusing that anyone could like or dislike someone soley based on an internet forum. It is probably also important to note for history that Politics at VDrums got started in One Thread. One thread that started as an innocent well wishing thoughtful message to members only to become a nasty heated discussion. I didnt start the thread but I responded to it and found that the lack of response in finishing it from the Mods was telling. Clues started to mount and I watched to see how it has shaken out over the last year and a half. The funny thing is that maybe a handful of people really get it which also says something about some folks but I wont go there. What I am getting to Steve is sometimes Politics and other comments from me are used as metaphors, unfortunately most folks dont get it.

I guess with the second paragragh in your reply is aimed at something I did or said, again I think your not reading into it deep enough. The powers that be decided that there will be no political signature content. If you reread your first sentence and then the last paragraph then you can get a better picture of how the game is played. Wag the dog maybe?
Isnt the squeaky wheel theory how changes is made anywhere?

The only thing I tried to provoke at Vdrums is brainwaves, but I did notice in your reply here that when you describe the right you do it in negative "provoke and Indoctrinate" strong terms but when you describe the left it is blowhard a more jolly term and dismissive as to they will deal with it. I am not imagining the bias just the only one with enough balls to say it.

The funny thing is that you are encouraged to come here and speak your mind, no one asked you to come and do it but we openly welcome you while you do it. The idea of free expression and and open exchange of ideas is important and should be encouraged. Thats how we can make the EDrum community and communities in general a better place. Whether or not I agree with your take on the situation I appreciate your thoughts.


Steve, probably important to note that:

1)I am a customer of every Mod who has a business and the board owner and I am friendly with almost all of them.

2) I didnt start this forum to challenge VDrums or EDrumming.com I wanted more of a DIY place with a focus on the 2 major equipment companies (maybe add the smaller ones in later) Yamaha and Roland. I envision this place to become more of a resource and a community based forum. But I love the ability to speak my mind here and encourage others to do so also.

I hope that we will see you around here, the best of luck. Tom

[Relayer]

Tom,

Thanks very much for the warm welcome and thoughtful reply. I actually joined here without knowing you were involved, so it was not my intention to come here and harass you over your politics.

I'm sure that several of your political exchanges have been in response to someone attacking your politics. But let's be honest - what do you really expect when your signature literally screams controversy? Especially when your opinion of who the "stupid people" are is so thinly-veiled. Sometimes both the right and desire to express oneself is not the wisest course of action. You might also want to consider the manner in which you respond. For instance, you managed to take a swipe at college professors. I have taught at the University level, and can assure you that my politics were left at home (no pun intended), where they belonged. Heckfire, Newt Gingrich was a History professor at my alma mater, and I can assure you that his students got plenty of rhetoric along with their instruction, so it's a two-way street.

BTW, right now over at Vdrums forum, there's some knucklehead defending his anti-Bush sig to nth degree and catching all kinds of hell about it. I wouldn't be so sure you were a victim of bias.

I'll leave you with this - many Christians interpret the Tenth Commandment (thou shalt not covet...) and the story of the Romans casting lots over Jesus's garments as signs from God that gambling is a sin. How will you respond if one of these folks ever takes you to task for your enthusiasm for poker?

Take care and thanks again.

Steve

[TAKnipe]

Hey Steve,
If you ever decide to look up any of my posts from other issues that have come up I did answer these issues completely. I never mind people taking me to task over something I wrote or said publicly. After speaking to Alan I complied with the rules they set forth before they even set the rules. This issue has been a long time coming and I felt it was ignored over the years. Although I own this site, it will be not be Moderated by me, there will be no sales pitches here. This will be a community open and full of resources. If we open up the drum book and video store it will be treated as a resource and not for profit, only to maintaining operating costs as we grow. In a community folks disagree, that is all well and good but people need to come together and resolve issues together and recognize we arent all from the same mold.

One of my main points was the last time I was called on the carpet for Sig content I cleaned it up and kept it that way. I only changed after MJ gave me some back talk after I politely asked him to rethink his bumper sticker. I hope he rethinks it because no one should ever be banned from a forum.

The classroom is a place where I feel Politics is unwelcomed, unless it is Poli-Sci or history. But could not really defend teaching youngsters either right or left opinions.

[Relayer]

Tom,

The bottom line is that I really don't think you were singled-out. As you saw, MJ is being threatened with banishment. I agree that's too bad, but he has his own hard-headed attitude to blame. Change inevitably brings a certain amount of chaos, but usually cooler heads prevail at some point and things settle down Perhaps you might reconsider "detatching" yourself from the other forum until things have calmed down a bit - your knowledge and expertise will be missed I'm sure.

Being strictly a Vdrum and VST guy, I probably won't be able to add to or take as much from this place as much as I do some of the others, but of course I'll stick around and chime in when I can.

Anyway, the video and book resource is a great idea, something I could definitely take advantage of.

Good luck and best wishes,

Steve

[TAKnipe]

Hey Steve, I do think eventually you can get something from the yamaha samples, those sounds I am going to try to make universal. For VST guys that will allow you to have all the custom acoustic sounds for free rather than plunking down $800.00 for one of my custom drums. So dont be suprised if we have an expanded format eventually.

Good Luck Steve and good talking to you, Tom

[kevincool87]

That'll be awesome! Oh yea, how's the 1959 gretsch snare sampling going?

BTW this thread would be the first to go over a page since this forums' existance. Well, that is only if you have left the post-per-page option at 15.

It's... a great way to start :)

[TAKnipe]

Whuffie for both you and Steve,

Kevin, I wanted to ask what is the definition of ADHOC, I noticed that all his posts were deleted. I hope he didnt leave Vdrums. Bottom line is that no one should leave because of Signature content ever.

I have been working on the Gretsch along with your shells and I am trying to finish the Custom Mahogany with Maple Rings and a solid cherry to sample also. You cant rush art, Art is the guy who works on the drums when I am away. He wont work unless I feed him!! Dam Art :) ;D

[kevincool87]

Now that you mention it I realised all his posts were replaced by '......' and as his avatar is gone as well?

I saw a glimpse of his post before about something... Evilrox quoted him saying

Originally Posted by adhoc
This is ridiculous. Why should that matter at all? I'm an American -- what if I use the same sig? (I'm more than half inclined to anyway; I already have the actual bumpersticker.) Does that make the statement any less "offensive" to the sensitive souls here?
Did everyone miss it when the owner said it didn't bother him?'

Before that he wrote 'No one's forcing you to read his signatures' or something like that, in a reply to 'The Source'.

Don't know why his posts were deleted as well as his avatar, but I don't think he's banned.

Also I didn't know ADHOC meant something until you mentioned it now.

Wikipedia Definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHOC)

This seems to be the official website for it (http://www.bigpond.com.kh/users/adhoc/about_adhoc/about_adhoc.htm#W).