All about headphones

[CaTaPulT]

Hi all.
I'd like to share my experience about headphones and recording the DTX modules to computer as audio files as in MP3 (not midi). A couple of years ago, my sweetheart Debbie bought me a pair of AKG K240studio for father's day, these are excellent headphones, but the thing I love most about them is they are flat lined headphones, what I mean my flat lined is they do NOT enhance anything, they are like flat lining a equalizer thus how you setup your module to sound is how it will sound when recorded.
I've tried so many less expensive headphones including Sony, JVC, etc, all these headphone are end user headphones and all of them enhance the sound by boosting bass and some highs, kind of like turning on the "loudness" switch on a home stereo. I was getting kind of discouraged for the longest time, building user kits that sounded great on my Sony headphones but sounded totally different after being recoded and listened to on my computer with different headphones, all that work just to have my user kit sound horrible.
Well, once I got these AKG K240s headphones, it took a long time to get used to it because at first, they sounded kind of boring, no booms, no enhancements of the sounds from my kits, but once I got used to them, I started building better user kits that sounded half decent when recorded as compared to before.
Please don't get me wrong here, I'm no sound engineer but out of my personal expereince, these headphones have made all the difference in the world for me, well, I found out AKG stopped making the model I have replaced by the AKG K240s MkII at a higher price, well, sorry, I was so impressed with my K240s, I found a place on eBay that still sold the old model I have thus I purchased another pair, I use the 2nd pair at my computer.
Here's what I do, I setup my user kits to sound the way I want in my K240s headphones at the drums, then I do a test recording to test levels and sound quality and then dump the MP3 to my main computer. Then I make sure to turn off the EQ on the sound card so it too is flat lined and then use my K240s headphone to listen to the test recording, now I can actualy hear it the way it was recorded and know the base sound of the recording is what I want. Then I try using the sound card's EQ to see various settings as to how a listener might listen to my recording since no two people like the same sounds and will normaly EQ a piece of music differently. Well, after all this time, I finally figured out how easy it is to make decent user kits just because the sound I hear now is the sound I'm really getting.
Please people, do yourself a huge favor, get yourselves a pair of headphone that do not enhance the sound, they just let you hear what's really there and no more. I can't recommend these AKG K240s enough and I'm sure the newer more expensive model are the same in sound quality, these headphones are amazing.
NOTE: if you decided to look into these K240s headphones, make sure they are the K240s (studio), and not the K240m (monitor) the K240m need extremely high impedance (900 I think) and are meant to be plugged into high end mixer boards or for those using high end headphone preamps, the K240s uses 55 ohms impedance and works well through a computer sound card.
Just thought I'd share my experience with you in case your running into the same recording troubles.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

Great Post Jack, Thank You

[CaTaPulT]

My Pleasure Tom. :)

For anyone interested in the K240s headphones, here's the eBay link I bought mine from, pretty sweet deal at $89.95 US.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270407937379

Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[dschrammie]

The questions I'd have are regarding comfort and the connector. Personally, I can't stand using a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter. I saw one reviewer was saying that this particular headphone has some weird kind of proprietary connector that goes from the cord into the headphones themselves...I don't know if he's full of it or something, it sounds kinda screwy to me. Anyway, I personally prefer just a straight 1/4" connector, especially for something that's supposed to be for "studio" use. That's just my preference.
I'm also just generally curious about the comfort, and the amount of isolation you get from external noise. They look like they're pretty comfortable.

What I really love are the reviews...they're all over the place. Some people saying they're really boomy, some saying they lack bass "oomph", some saying they're too hot in the mids. I really wonder what these people are using as reference material to come up with these conclusions. Even without Jack's review/explanation, I would typically expect anything that's labeled "studio" to have a pretty flat response. I also love that people are complaining that these aren't good for use with portable electronics...uhhh, duh! That's because they're not meant for portables you dummies!

Anyway, on another note, I've seen a lot of people are big fans of the Audio Technica ATH-M50 and -M40 headphones. We use the M50s here at my work, and though they do have a good flat response, I would say that they are not very comfortable. I couldn't see myself wearing them for an extended session at the kit. They too have the stupid 1/8"-1/4" adapter. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in since this thread is "All about headphones". :D

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Dschrammie.
The comfort level of the K240s are actually quite good, I've worn them for hours at a time when working on user kits, being full cupped headphones, in the summer time, they do get warm and sweaty on the ears, but I've yet to see a full cupped headphone not do this.
As for the 1/4 to 1/8 inch adapter that comes with the headphones, this one is of high quality and it just doesn't plug into the adapter, it screws in making sure you get great contact. What you heard is correct regarding the plug at the headphones, the cable does plug into the left cup, I've never unplugged mine and have never heard any ill sounds (crunching) do to the plug's contacts moving. The thing I like about this system as compared to expensive headphone that are hardwired right into the cup is if I run over my headphone cable with a truck, train, samurai sword, I can just order a new cable and save my headphones! LOL :)
Agreed, the reviews are mixed but those people that buy these to listen to certain music that would have boomy sounds will be disappointed, these are no BS headphones, the signal going to these headphones is what you will hear, no less, no more, this is why I love them.
The one thing I heard from reading many reviews is that they are sturdy, well built and dependable, no complaints about the attaching cable that I have read. I agree with this part of the reviews, they are well built.
For the cost (there are much more expensive headphones out there) I am very impressed with these K240s headphones. :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[WildWes]

Because you said so Jack.......I ordered a set from the eBay seller you posted. Looking forward to hearing the difference. WW

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Wes.
Looking forward to hearing what you think of them, I think once you get used to not having the sound enhanced by other headphones, you will love these.
Like I mentioned, it took me a while to get used to the "flat" sound, I was used to my Sony's enhancing the sound, once I got used to these, I never want to go back to anything else at the kit! :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[Scorch Whammin]

Because you said so Jack.......I ordered a set from the eBay seller you posted. Looking forward to hearing the difference. WW

Me too....just ordered...looking forward to trying em out!!!:)

[CaTaPulT]

Cool, looking forward to hearing what you think about them as well Scott! :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[WildWes]

Received the headphones tonight Jack. Not bad, though a dryer sound than I've been use to. It will be interesting to see what impact they have when I record.

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Wes.
Yes, they have a flat sound, not quite sure how to describe it but they will take a little getting use to. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you record though. Kinda like what you hear on the kit is what you hear when recorded (as long as your using the same headphones to listen to the recording and make sure you flat line or turn off any EQ on the playback device). I know it made a difference for me using the same headphones to listen to the playback, it gave me a better idea as to what needed tweaking sound wise on the kit. :)
Enjoy! :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Wes.
Just curious as to how you are getting along with your new K240s headphones?
Getting used to them now?
Noticing more of the "you get what you hear" when kit editing?
Another test to see how good these headphones can sound is to plug them into your computer or home entertainment system, flat line the EQ first, and then start playing with the EQ, you'll notice that the bass, mid range and high end come through so nicely when EQ'ed to your favorite settings, but for edrum editing, these are a great.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[Scorch Whammin]

Got my headphones today.....and all I've got to say on these things is.........Great Call Jack!...very nice head phones!....and definitely really good for editing kits!....already made some changes to my beech kit....Thanks Jack...I'll post a rec. of the beech kit soon!....:)...my previous headphones are nice but they are dynamic hp's (audio technica ath-ad500) and as such tend to be a bit bright...I believe the AKG's will help with ensuring kits are what I think they are....I'll record some kits soon and verify that statement...:)

[TAKnipe]

I have always wanted a set of Behr Dynamics headphones but I havent had the funds for that. I am currently using the Audio technica ATH M30's and I like them alot. After reading Jack's review I would be amiss if i didnt give the AKG's a try. I will purchase these when I have a few bucks put away again. Thanks again Jack for the review. Tom :)

[CaTaPulT]

Scott, I'm happy to hear you are satisfied with the new K240s, personally, I love them, for me, it made all the difference in the world for kit editing and recording since I've always not been so good at either, but using the headphone I was using at the time explains why I was having so much trouble, my K240s made this a lot simpler just by hearing what I was really doing and nothing more.

Tom, I think you may be pleased with the K240s, they are of very good quality and for that price, they are a bargain. As stated before, this model is discontinued so I don't know how much stock that seller has, my guess, once their gone he won't be able to get more, the alternative will be the newer model (K240 MkII) but these are quite a bit more expensive.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[drum4ever]

I've missed this thread. I have been using the K240s for about 3 years now and I love them. I am not really happy about the price of a replacement cable. Mine is separating a bit but still works perfectly. Just wanted a backup. If the MkIIs are much higher the replacement cable may become more practical. The plug looks like a mini XLR. The cable seems to run around $35.

I A-B'd them against everything high end that Guitar Center had at the time and, at any price range, they blew all others away for clarity and range with my ears. Different people with different hearing losses will likely disagree though.

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Drum4ever.
When I bought my first pair of K240s, it was at a local music store, I took the K240s and a pair of similarly prices Sennheisers to the drum dept and tried both on a Roland kit they had on display, the Sennheisers added a little something to the sound, a little more bass I think also they weren't that comfortable, they kind of squeezed my head. Once I tried the K240s I was WOW'ed, so I switch between the two about 3 or 4 time paying close attention for the quality of the sounds from the kit I was trying and the K240s won hands down, much more comfortable and the sound was superior for me.
As for people with a bit of hearing loss, I have some hearing loss due to industrial noise and for my personal taste, the K240s still sound great as compared to other headphones I've tried.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the K240s. :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[Totally Plucked]

Hi Jack. Thanks for the review really helpfull. Being semi open headphones what are the 240s like for sound isolation? I know the 240s are popular with edrummers but the one thing that concerns me is that everyone says "get closed" so theres a bit of a contradiction going on. Can you hear your sticks hitting the pads?

Im looking to to get a set of decent headphones and I am increasingly drawn to the 240's because of the changeable pads and cable but unfortunatley I cant find a local stockist to go try them out.

Any help appreciate.

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Totally Plucked.
The K240s don't isolate outside noises 100%, if I hit my pads hard enough, I can hear the strike sound (especially the hihat since it's a little closer to the ear) but that's when I have the volume in the headphones at a lower level, lower than I normally play at, at the higher levels I normally play at, I don't hear the pads and if you are a light hitter then chances are you won't hear the pads, oh yeah, I play Yamaha eDrums thus hard rubber pads, if your using mesh heads, those would be quieter than rubber pads thus chances are you won't hear the pad noise when using the K240s.
Wes, Scorch and Drum4ever, can you please comment on this?
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[WildWes]

Hi Totally Plucked. The K240s don't isolate outside noises 100%, if I hit my pads hard enough, I can hear the strike sound (especially the hihat since it's a little closer to the ear) but that's when I have the volume in the headphones at a lower level, lower than I normally play at, at the higher levels I normally play at, I don't hear the pads and if you are a light hitter then chances are you won't hear the pads, oh yeah, I play Yamaha eDrums thus hard rubber pads, if your using mesh heads, those would be quieter than rubber pads thus chances are you won't hear the pad noise when using the K240s. Wes, Scorch and Drum4ever, can you please comment on this? Take care Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

Hi!, my name is Wes and I've been converted to the 240 headphones - hahahaha.

Well TP, Jack's correct. I play an acoustic DIY kit with mesh on top and mylar heads on the bottoms. Hence, the noise is slightly louder than when I had mesh heads on both ends. Like Jack's response, if I have the headphone volume fairly low, I can hear ambient external noise from the drums themselves. The bigger change for me was the flatter response from these headphones, as I was use to a big echoing, bass enhanced sound that these headphones don't produce. They are the headphones I use now.

Product endorsement complete - Please PayPal me my fee Jack. WW

[Totally Plucked]

Thanks guys for the quick response. My kit is TD9KX so mesh heads all round but hard rubber for the cymbals and base so probably similar to the Yamaha. From what you say it sounds like the 240's probably arnt much worse than many close back headphones anyway. I have been looking at the k271's (and 171's) with closed backs but reviews Ive found on these generally arn't very positive although its all a matter of personal taste and intended use I appreciate.

One other reason for me looking at the 240's is the number of complaints about various headphones (inc AKG and Audio Technica) being too tight or having too small an ear cup. I dont have a massive head or big ears but Im not tiny either. Jacks pretty much answered this in post 5 I think?

Im still thinking but it looks like someones offering the 240's for £80 + shipping which looks pretty good considering most places have them on for £120 and that puts then at just £35 more expensive than the ATH-M30 which I was also considering ........Am I wasting time? :rolleyes:

Thanks again TP (or Howard if you prefer...........like the Duck!)

[Totally Plucked]

Ok so I took the plunge and ordered the 240's. Arrived today and well to be honest im a bit disappointed. Firstly the noise isolation is practically non existant and certainly its no better than my cheap on ear headphones so I can still quite clearly hear my sticks banging the cymbals :(. Secondly the volume level is not great, not bad but even at full volume I cant hide the tapping noise. Id read a few review saying that AKG's arn't good for volume but I had hoped these would be better, dont get me wrong I have good hearing and I dont want to go deaf but it would be nice to up the volume if I wanted.

I appreciate that they are new and they need running in but I dont see these 2 issues being resolved over time. But have I got it wrong? How do the 240's stand up against fully closed back headphones?

On the plius side they are really comfortable and lightweight but thats really not selling it to me.

Im thinking that I can return the 240's within 7 days so i might try either a closed back AKG or something like the Audio Technica M50 or M30.

Any thoughts?

[dschrammie]

Hey Howard -
I can understand your dilemma. Headphones can be a tricky subject...some models you'll find people will swear by, and others will think they're shyte. My honest opinion is that comfort and weight will become an issue when you sit down for a long session. For example, the M50's aren't that comfortable to me...and I was only wearing them for about 5 minutes. I couldn't imagine wearing them for an hour.

Studio reference headphones also take some getting used to because of the flat response. Cheaper headphones will tend to "color" the sound, typically in the low end, and will usually sound different than what gets recorded. That low end "boost" will also usually make something sound "fuller"...the lack of "fullness" may be part of what makes the K240's seem like they're not getting as loud. I think this is probably the effect you'll get from any studio reference headphone though.

The K240's do have a 91 dB sensitivity rating while the Audio Technica M30's and M50's have 100 dB sensitivity. This simply means that the M30/50's are using the energy a little more efficiently - it doesn't take quite as much gain to achieve the same dB-SPL.

Yes, you may be more satisfied with a fully closed back. I haven't heard the M30's, so I can't speak for their quality. The M50's are good reference headphones, but you're going to pay more for them than you did the K240's and they won't be as comfortable (in my opinion).

[WildWes]

Ok so I took the plunge and ordered the 240's. Arrived today and well to be honest im a bit disappointed. Firstly the noise isolation is practically non existant and certainly its no better than my cheap on ear headphones so I can still quite clearly hear my sticks banging the cymbals :(. Secondly the volume level is not great, not bad but even at full volume I cant hide the tapping noise. Id read a few review saying that AKG's arn't good for volume but I had hoped these would be better, dont get me wrong I have good hearing and I dont want to go deaf but it would be nice to up the volume if I wanted. Any thoughts?

I have the headphone level on my TD-10exp set at 12:00, when using my 240's. The loudest pad I own is a VH-11 hi-hat and I can barely hear the stick impacts at this level. I don't hear anything out of my Yamaha PCY cymbals. When set at 2:00, I hear no stick impact from the VH-11, but this is louder than I want when playing thru headphones. Perhaps the TD-9 headphone jack isn't hot enough for this phones, hence the low volume level. If it's too distracting for you while playing, you may need to exchange them for another brand. WW

[CaTaPulT]

I also get a lot of volume from my K240s headphones, my "Phones" volume slider on my DTXtreme III isn't maxed out when I play and I have to listen for the pad sounds purposely to hear them when playing at my usual volume level, at lower levels, I do hear the pad sounds.
Sorry to hear you're not pleased with the headphones Howard, are these the older K240s or are they the newer K240s MkII?
I even have a stereo Y-adapter on my headphones jack on the module, I have a pair of Sony headphones connected to my module as well so when Debbie wants to listen in. and lots of volume to both pairs.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[Totally Plucked]

OK just when you thought I'd dropped off the face of the earth.......An update.

I decided to send the 240's back and in return Ive managed to find a UK source of straight cabled M50's. They arrived today and whilst Im still playing with them I thought Id post my initial thoughts and I will give out awards for which I think is better the M50's or K240's

Isolation: - M50 by miles, although I can still here a bit of tapping its nothing like with the 240's.
Volume: - M50 by a small but significant margin although I think this is very much helped by the improved isolation.
Comfort: - K240 by miles, they just worked out of the box, put 'em on and forget, the M50's do clamp so they are not as comfortable although not bad at all but as I wear spectacles I dont want them too tight, but the AKG's are just so much better.
Overall Sound quality - Probably a draw . hard to say this one as they are both great. I think the 240's are more neutral but I didnt get to listen to the 240's too long as I wanted to keep them "as new" The M50's appear warmer, perhaps woolly which isnt a good thing IMHO but thats straight out the box.

To be honest Im currently burning in the M50's with a bit of Tool Aenima at a normal volume so we will see if that helps improve the sound a bit more(or perhaps it wont make any difference at all :rolleyes:). Initial thoughts are that it has but that might be because I want it to as much as anything else. I also have the M50's stretched over a cardboard box in the hope that this will make them more comfortable.Hey its worth a try.

Il report back when Ive used them for a bit.

[drum4ever]

Ok. Isolation wasn't something I personally addressed in regard to the 240s. I actually like the low level of isolation. I can still hear others on stage between songs and my sound level provides sufficient isolation when playing. I am playing mesh drums though. The cymbal tapping still comes through but not too distracting.

[forpetessake]

Interesting thread. Man I wish I was in the position you guys are at with recording etc. But me and my little old Hd-1 are just hanging out in the basement playing some tunes and practicing without trying to disturb Mrs Forpetessake.
So what I am looking for is a set of cans whose internal speakers wont get blown out when I play. Any suggestions?

[Totally Plucked]

Hi forpetessake How much are you looking to spend?

[forpetessake]

No more than $50?

[audiopat]

I'm not sure of the price where you are, but the Sennheiser hd212's are a pretty good pair of phones. They do have an increased bass response, but with e-drums thats not really a bad thing.

[Totally Plucked]

OK forpetessake. Well I was going to suggest the Audio-Technica ATH-M30 but these look just outside your budget. Its been mentioned that these are almost as good as the M50's but I havent heared them myself. They will work well with edrums. Other than that Sennheisers always seem to get good reviews or maybe look at the lower range AKG's but again I havent listened to them. I guess then point is that both the M50's and the K240s are classed as monitor headphones ie they have a flat response (mostly) that is what is supposed to make them different to Hifi headphones. Anyway Im probably teaching you to suck eggs :rolleyes: Ideally you should try to listen to some instore to avoid my hastle with returning them if you dont like them.

[Totally Plucked]

I thought Id take the opportunity for a quick update on the M50's. My initial thoughts still stand in that I find the base too strong and not at all neutral however I added an coiled headphone extension cable which effectively gives me a 10m cable, what this does it to pull back the base letting the mids and treble come forward and stopping the sound from being "woolly") Result! These now sound great with music and the edrums so problem solved in that respect.

I still find them a little uncomfortable but thats because I wear spectacles and the headphones clamp on my ears. I didnt have this problem with the K240's.

My last little niggle applied to the K240's as much as the M50's and thats the pleather pads, velvet is so much more comfortable but I have tried alternative pads and also making my owm earphone covers and unfortunately this just makes the sound all basey again so Ive decided to stick with the somewhat sticky pleather pads, clearly these headphones are more precision engineered than I cared to give them credit for.

Overall Im happy with the M50's but I guess it goes to shiow that different headphones sound different (better or worse) to different people. Who said this would be easy? ;)

[dschrammie]

Wait a second....you added cable length and that reduced bass? It shouldn't work that way. Typically as cable length is increased it's the higher frequencies that are vulnerable to attenuation (although, this is such an incredibly small increase in length that no frequencies should be affected at all).

[Totally Plucked]

Wait a second....you added cable length and that reduced bass? It shouldn't work that way. Typically as cable length is increased it's the higher frequencies that are vulnerable to attenuation (although, this is such an incredibly small increase in length that no frequencies should be affected at all).

Well Im not going to argue with you.:) Your probably (or should that be definately) right that it is the higher frequencies that have changed Im really not sure to be honest. Either way their is definitely a change for the better (to me anyway) Interestingly if I add another extension to take it to 15m I can definately notice a lose of detail in the high frequencies which I guess confirms your correct in your understanding of cable/audio physics which to be perfactly honest, I have never really understood :rolleyes:

[dschrammie]

hope I didn't sound like a know-it-all...'cause I'm not...most will tell you that I know very little! It just didn't make sense to me so I was wondering if there's some weird electrical anamoly that you know of. Who knows, maybe it's something to do with going through multiple connections? I should do some real life research and write up a case study...but that would require a lot more motivation and effort than what I'm really known for putting forth! :)
All that matters is that they sounded better to you, right? exactly! :D

[WildWes]

I should do some real life research and write up a case study...but that would require a lot more motivation and effort than what I'm really known for putting forth! :)

I hear you D. I find my serious lack of ambition impedes on completing most tasks assigned to me. :)

Hmmmmm. Probably why I chose to work for the government :D

[Totally Plucked]

hope I didn't sound like a know-it-all...'
All that matters is that they sounded better to you, right? exactly! :D

Not at all Im glad you did I always find it interesting how what you think is happening differs to what is actually happening. If you hadnt said Id have asumed I was right which I guess Im not so I learn something ...;)

Wes: there are a lot worse people to work for than the government:rolleyes:

[WildWes]

Wes: there are a lot worse people to work for than the government:rolleyes:

TP,

I didn't say they were bad, just that I was lucky in finding an employer to match my "can't do attitude" and high drag/low speed work ethic - hahahahahahaha

[Rudy Muntz]

I've used the AKGs in studios, and don't much care for 'em-I don't have perfectly round ears, they're more sort of oblong. I'll give 'em points for comfort and flat response, though; good for mixing, particularly the K240M. I used Sony MDR7506s in the home studio for many, many years-very comfy, excellent resolution in the critical midrange frequencies, and not too much bass-but also hardly any isolation, which I think is why DJs love 'em; they're gonna hear the subs no matter what, they gotta have the mids for cueing. They're good enough to mix on, but a disaster for tracking with sensitive condenser mics; too much bleed. I now use the AT M40FS; field replaceable drivers, earcups and cable, excellent isolation, quarter in connector only-no unimatch. Yeah, they're a little tight when new, but all cans will loosen up over time.

I believe you can mix on anything as long as you know how it's coloring your sound, (no monitor system will ever be perfectly flat, in any case) but I tend to make mix decisions based on speakers, and just use phones when I need an audio microscope. I've also heard really good things about the AT M50, but haven't tried 'em yet.