Advice On Entry Into eDrums. . .

[tkleff]

Hi all,

I'm very intrigued by electronic drumsets.

I'm a life long drummer (heck, I even have a music degree). For most of my life, I rehearsed in rehearsal spaces rented by the month. I tend to be a loud rock drummer, though I have some skill level beyond that.

In any event, I'm an attorney now, but I'd love to have the ability to crank some tunes up in my ear and just rock out while not killing my apartment neighbors. I've done some of the introductory reading and poking around on the web. I understand -- like pepsi-coke -- there's roughly Roland - Yamaha DXT-IIs and IIIs.

My vision is to find someone selling a kit on craigslist or ebay and to try to snag something for a great price. Candidly I'm in no great hurry --

BUT. . . I'm not even sure of the right questions yet. On my list of things to do, is to go back to guitar center and get a feel for the difference between rubber and mesh.

Also, I did review a very organized DYI site -- and while I could do much of what they have up there, undoubtedly some of it would be quite difficult for me (Like cutting a circle). In any event, I think I'd be willing to spend about $1,000 for something that had some life like quality to it. Incidentally, I did look at some of the top of the line $3k-$6k sets; while they're definitely interesting, it's a bit beyond my needs. I'd lovesome realistic sounds -- but I really just want to be able to crank tunes through the headphone and play along.

Furthermore, there may be an occasion where I play out -- but I still have my acoustic kids; indeed, there may also be some opportunity for home recording. But honestly, that's not my focus -- I mean, I have regular income from a steady day job -- so I need not worry about trying to get more recording functionality out of them in order to build a reputation. I just want to play.

Anyone want to weigh in with their thoughts? What did you do? What questions have I not yet considered? How much could I save if I did it DYI?

How much do I lose if I buy a DXT-II instead of a DXt-III?

Thanks!

--Craig.

[Scorch Whammin]

Hi all,

I'm very intrigued by electronic drumsets.

I'm a life long drummer (heck, I even have a music degree). For most of my life, I rehearsed in rehearsal spaces rented by the month. I tend to be a loud rock drummer, though I have some skill level beyond that.

In any event, I'm an attorney now, but I'd love to have the ability to crank some tunes up in my ear and just rock out while not killing my apartment neighbors. I've done some of the introductory reading and poking around on the web. I understand -- like pepsi-coke -- there's roughly Roland - Yamaha DXT-IIs and IIIs.

My vision is to find someone selling a kit on craigslist or ebay and to try to snag something for a great price. Candidly I'm in no great hurry --

BUT. . . I'm not even sure of the right questions yet. On my list of things to do, is to go back to guitar center and get a feel for the difference between rubber and mesh.

Also, I did review a very organized DYI site -- and while I could do much of what they have up there, undoubtedly some of it would be quite difficult for me (Like cutting a circle). In any event, I think I'd be willing to spend about $1,000 for something that had some life like quality to it. Incidentally, I did look at some of the top of the line $3k-$6k sets; while they're definitely interesting, it's a bit beyond my needs. I'd lovesome realistic sounds -- but I really just want to be able to crank tunes through the headphone and play along.

Furthermore, there may be an occasion where I play out -- but I still have my acoustic kids; indeed, there may also be some opportunity for home recording. But honestly, that's not my focus -- I mean, I have regular income from a steady day job -- so I need not worry about trying to get more recording functionality out of them in order to build a reputation. I just want to play.

Anyone want to weigh in with their thoughts? What did you do? What questions have I not yet considered? How much could I save if I did it DYI?

How much do I lose if I buy a DXT-II instead of a DXt-III?

Thanks!

--Craig.

Hey Craig...I recently purchased the DTXtreme III module for my kit (DTXtreme I RHP kit)....I can't say enough good things about this module...it really is a very powerful piece of gear with loads of editing capability/functionality and excellent drum sounds....and now with the price of the kit reduced (by $1000) by Yamaha...to me it's great deal and the best bang for the buck on the market...When I purchased my new module I was looking at the td-20 and the III...I do not regret buying the III over the td-20, as I feel the drum sounds in the III are more realistic (IMO).....the III also has some other really nice features such as groove check, a pretty extensive song list that you can play along with (and record your performance to..which to me is neat feature).....and absolutely tons of editing capability..so that you can create your own drum kits..:)...the module gives you 50 places to create your own user kits..as well as the ability to create additional ext. user kits that you would save to a USB device (flash card)...as well as many other features...

[TAKnipe]

Craig, First of all Welcome to EDF, If you are looking for a decent kit used and $1,000.00 and under then you need to focus on the DTXtreme 2s or the DTXpress 4 area. I have a Xtreme3 and a 2s and I love them both but overall if you want something to grow with then I would say go with the Dtxtreme 2s and try to hunt one down. The soundset is realistic and the module has 16 inputs and the cymbal samples are the most realistic I have ever heard.

The dtxpress 4 is more reasonably priced and has the updated soundset but is limited in inputs (depending on how many you need). The Xpress 4 would be my next recomendation for you. I like the smaller Yamaha rubber pads the best (softest feel).

Also with Yamaha there is a wealth of module knowledge either here or at DTXperience.com that will help you along the way.

There is nothing in the Roland line at the price point you are looking for that will even give you the choice of mesh. Even if you were going to go the DIY route you are looking at well over a thousand just for a decent module.

If you decide ultimately you want mesh then I think you would need to try a TD4 kit but its over what you would like to spend. People have given the module great reviews and the module price is reasonable but then you would need to DIY a kit or find some used mesh pads for it to work into your budget and even that would go over a little.

Other than that, once you get a handle on what you prefer then check out ebay and craigslist and I am sure you will find what you need. Good Luck and again Welcome to EDF. Tom :)

[WildWes]

Hi all,

In any event, I'm an attorney now, but I'd love to have the ability to crank some tunes up in my ear and just rock out while not killing my apartment neighbors. I've done some of the introductory reading and poking around on the web. I understand -- like pepsi-coke -- there's roughly Roland - Yamaha DXT-IIs and IIIs.

BUT. . . I'm not even sure of the right questions yet. On my list of things to do, is to go back to guitar center and get a feel for the difference between rubber and mesh.

In any event, I think I'd be willing to spend about $1,000 for something that had some life like quality to it. I'd lovesome realistic sounds -- but I really just want to be able to crank tunes through the headphone and play along. --Craig.

Hi Craig.

My two cents. Sounds like your a plug and play type individual, so I suggest you find a used DTX II kit. The TP-100/120 rubber pads are the softest/responsive out there and if I were to play on rubber pads, that's what I would get. Even the Roland owners are starting to see what a steal the Yamaha PCY cymbals are compared to the Rolands (half-price). However, if your wanting mesh drums, find yourself a DTX II module, Yamaha cymbals and Pintech mesh drums (do you like purple sparkle - hahaha). Look around CL and eBay for deals on clean, used equipment.

Now as to that "apartment neighbor" thing. Having edrums doesn't mean they won't hear you playing and not become annoyed. Most instances of neighbor issues with edrums is the pedal impact noise traveling through the floor and not the stick striking the pads/cymbals. Something to think about unless your on the bottom floor.

Oh yeah, I've owned a DTX III module (sold it to Scott) and currently play on Pintech mesh drums and Yamaha cymbals with two modules: Yamaha DTX II and Roland TD-10exp. For me, the DTX III is a great module, but requires a person that really likes to experiment with all the gadget/gizmos it has to offer. That's not me, so I sold it to Scott and now use the two modules. Because, I'm a plug and play type guy, I turn it on, find the kit I like and play to recorded music thru the headphones. Simple.

PS: It's not really a Yamaha vs Roland answer, but you will find that Yamaha products will be a lot less expensive for you to enter into the world of edrums. Good luck with your search. WW

[Hellfire]

Hi Craig,
I'll go with what has already been stated. I do think you best bet (at you price range buying new) is the DTXpress 4. If you really feel you need a mesh head set-up, you might want to look for an older Roland set-up. A TD-8 kit. The TD-8 kit, I believe, had an option for all mesh triggers and they do come up on Ebay once in a while. Just my two cent.

BTW, Welcome to eDF. You can't go wrong with this place.:)

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Craig and welcome to this place! :)
As far as what's already been said, I'd have to agree with the DTXpress IV and if you can find a used DTXtreme IIs in your price range, that would be even better.
I would steer away from a DTXplorer though, it's Yamaha's entry level eDrum kit and it is very limiting for expansion and feel of play due to lack of multiple zones on it's inputs, it supports 3 zones only on the snare input.
You want a kit that will support 3 zones on the following pads.... Snare, ride cymbal and if possible 1 or 2 crash cymbal input. The Xpress IV does this and chances are you have a better chance of getting a used one around your price range.
Best bet, if there's a store near you that has both Yamaha and Roland kits setup to try, give them a shot, be warned however, if you go to a Guitar Center store, I've heard many bad stories about them regarding Yamaha stuff, they like pushing Roland and many (not all are bad stores) will even setup the Roland kits to perfection while doing a poor job setting up a Yamaha kit, I don't know why they do this but my guess is the sales people make a much better commission on the Roland stuff since it quite a bit more expensive that the Yamaha counterpart. See what you like feel wise for the pads, after all, you will be spending many hours striking these things so you may as well like how they feel.
Agreed with the comments about Yamaha cymbals, they are probably the best in the industry.
Good luck with whatever you choose and enjoy.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[tkleff]

Hi All,

Thanks for the info so far. It's become clear to me that I need to go get sticks onto a roland and yamaha electronic drum kit to see how they feel and respond.

Incidentally, doesn't Alesis and a few other companies make kits? If so, why are they uniformly ignored in favor of roland and yamaha?

A few additional questions:

1. Can one sample one's personal acoustic kit using the modules for either roland or yamaha? (I have a vistallite kit, and I love the sounds. It'd be a real kick to sample it and then crank it through my headphones).

2. If I want to crank tunes via an ipod and play along with it, do both the roland and yamaha units have the input/output and the ability to mix the exterior song and the interior drum sounds?

3. What would the price difference be if I did a DIY kit and tried to use a roland or a yamaha brain? (e.g., if I could save $800 bucks and could smartly make the triggers and the kid, i'd consider it. But, if making my own kit would save me $250-$300 -- then, it's probably not enough to make it worth my while).

Thanks for all the help!

--Craig.

[Scorch Whammin]

A few additional questions:

1. Can one sample one's personal acoustic kit using the modules for either roland or yamaha? (I have a vistallite kit, and I love the sounds. It'd be a real kick to sample it and then crank it through my headphones).

2. If I want to crank tunes via an ipod and play along with it, do both the roland and yamaha units have the input/output and the ability to mix the exterior song and the interior drum sounds?

3. What would the price difference be if I did a DIY kit and tried to use a roland or a yamaha brain? (e.g., if I could save $800 bucks and could smartly make the triggers and the kid, i'd consider it. But, if making my own kit would save me $250-$300 -- then, it's probably not enough to make it worth my while).

Thanks for all the help!

--Craig.

Here's some answers to your questions:
1) Only Yamaha's DTXtreme series will do samples...I, IIs use a smart media card for storage...the III uses DIMM (512mb) memory for sampling..but I think you have to save sampled kits to usb flash media....Alesis's newest module DM-10 also has the ability to sample...Roland's do not have the ability to sample....also the 2box kit I believe can sample...but I would not look for that kit to be available in the states for some time.
2) Yes for both brands on Ipod usage....yamaha, also as I stated earlier, has built in songs (which have drums recorded to them, but you can turn the drum track off also) and these are quite good..Rolands do have some recorded loops, but they're not as good IMO...I've heard the td-9 has better recorded loops than previous roland modules, but I haven't tried them out to verify.
3) With the cost of a DTXpress IV SE being $1499 and the xtreme III standard being $2199 & IIISP being $2999 (all a little cheaper at RMC audio)....I don't think you'll save that much, if any, by going the DIY self route..in fact it might be more expensive depending on what you build...but you will have something unique if you go that route....Also if you like mesh head drums you can probably find a roland td-8 kit in the $1000-$1400 range, or a td-10exp. kit for a little more than that.

Hope this helps, welcome aboard and good luck...

[Hellfire]

Well, it wouldn't be that difficult to convert an acoustic kit. Add some Billy Blast mesh heads (http://billyblastdrums.easystorecreator.com/items/mesh-heads~muffs/list.htm) and some Billy blast drum triggers (http://billyblastdrums.easystorecreator.com/items/drum-triggers/set-of-five-triggers-blasters-set-of-five-triggers-blasters-detail.htm). You would still have to buy some eCymbals. Get yourself a module and your good to go. If you have a good computer you could get an Alesis trigger I/O or two ($160 a pop). That would be the cheap way, but it would take a lot of tweaking to get right. General purpose edrum stuff (like the trigger I/O) can sometimes take some tweaking, because they are made as a catch all type device. Just an idea.

[tkleff]

HI All,

Thanks for all the help and encouragement so far.

I found a few items on eBay and figured I'd ask about them. What's the old saying - the devil's in the details?

I remember the words dtx -- but I think there's a distinction between express and extreme dtx models. So, what's the difference?

Here are a few that I've checked out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DTXpress-IV-Electronic-Drum-Set-System-DTX-OB_W0QQitemZ250463937327QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item3a50d0632f&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

dtxpress iv -- but someone recommended II or IIIs as being in my price range, but I think it was a II or III, _extreme_, not an _express_. I take it that's an important distinction?

I found a II set . . . but it didn't have the cymbals that move around, but rather they had stationary cymbals. That seemed like it would feel really odd. . . does it feel weird?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DTX-2-0-Electric-Drum-Set_W0QQitemZ110421856958QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKeyboa rds_MIDI?hash=item19b5a7d2be&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_1182

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh yea, I also found a dtx IV (unknown express or extreme) -- and the seller said "make me an offer. . . need to get car fixed." so, if I had some idea what it was worth, and what a great deal would be, I might consider it. . .

--Craig.

[tkleff]

HI All,

Thanks for all the help and encouragement so far.

I found a few items on eBay and figured I'd ask about them. What's the old saying - the devil's in the details?

I remember the words dtx -- but I think there's a distinction between express and extreme dtx models. So, what's the difference?

Here are a few that I've checked out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DTXpress-IV-Electronic-Drum-Set-System-DTX-OB_W0QQitemZ250463937327QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item3a50d0632f&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

dtxpress iv -- but someone recommended II or IIIs as being in my price range, but I think it was a II or III, _extreme_, not an _express_. I take it that's an important distinction?

I found a II set . . . but it didn't have the cymbals that move around, but rather they had stationary cymbals. That seemed like it would feel really odd. . . does it feel weird?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-DTX-2-0-Electric-Drum-Set_W0QQitemZ110421856958QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKeyboa rds_MIDI?hash=item19b5a7d2be&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14#ht_500wt_1182

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh yea, I also found a dtx IV (unknown express or extreme) -- and the seller said "make me an offer. . . need to get car fixed." so, if I had some idea what it was worth, and what a great deal would be, I might consider it. . .

--Craig.

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Craig.
Okay, the description of Yamaha eDrums........
The DTXtreme line means top of the line, the flagship module and kits Yamaha make. The DTXtreme IIs was the previous top of the line kit before Yamaha came out with the DTXtreme III which is now the top of the line, the DTXtreme III comes in 2 flavors, the standard kit and the special kit, the special being the ultimate that you can get.

The DTXpress line is Yamaha's mid range modules and kits, the current DTXpress in production is the DTXpress IV, it too comes in 3 flavors, the standard (as listed on the ebay link you showed) and the special, the special has a better snare pad (TP-100), a hihat on hihat stand, and 3 cymbals instead of 2. There's also a DTXpress IV Special V2 which has the new pads from Yamaha, this is the best you can get in the DTXpress IV line.
Previous DTXpress were the DTXpress, DTXpress II and DTXpress III.

The bottom of the line or entry level kit Yamaha sells is the DTXplorer, I can't really recomend this kit due to it's lack of multizone pads and the limitations of the module for expanding to multizone pads.

The other link you showed is of a fairly old kit from Yamaha called the DTX 2.0, I know nothing about this kit since it's before my edrumming days (I got into edrum about 4 years ago), WildWes knows about the module since he's used one, but not sure what pads and how many zones those pads were capable of back then.
I hope this helps.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[WildWes]

Your better off buying the DTXplorer than the DTX 2.0. But......don't buy the DTXplorer.

If your going to buy a Yamaha ekit, buy either a DTXpress IV or a DTXtreme or a DTXtreme II. WW

[tkleff]

Hey All,

Again, thanks for all the insight.

I did go to Guitar Center yesterday and they were kind enough to throw some headphones and sticks at me and let me bang away for an hour or so (time flies when you're having fun!).

I tried the yamaha dtx-III (or IV not sure) -- it was ~$3k. Unfortunately neither the bass drum nor the hihat worked for the drum kit -- so the playing was pretty awkward.

I also played 2 other express kits. I learned that I like the more realistic cymbals much better than the 1/4 circles that are fixed in position. So, that was a plus.

AFter I finished playing the Yamahas I played two different roland sets -- the td-9 module and the other module. I think they were something like $1500 and $2500, roughly as price points. I really liked the feel of the roland drum sets. The only hi-hat that seemed to respond to the nuance of opening and closing it was the roland set (and keep in mind, I couldn't get any hihat sound from the high end yamaha set). The particular roland set I liked, had the rack mounted remote hi-hat, that also worked as double hi-hats with a particular control.

For me, most of the songs were pretty cheesy and not a big selling point personally. I spent a lifetime in music school trying to be the classically trained, "well-rounded" good person drummer. (Meaning: the philosophy of many who teach drums says, you have to learn every style because that will make you a good drummer. At berklee it was particularly pernicious because they shunned the rock players and focused on jazz/latin/fusion. I tried to like it/love it (honest!), but in my heart I'm a hard hitting rock player. Always have been, always will be).

In any event, I know I won't use the fusion sets ups, or the bossa set ups, or the jazz tunes. Not interested.

The other interesting thing about playing on those kits -- is the dynamic range and where it's set. For me, when I was young, my rock dynamic range was quite limited. My sticks came off the set 12-18 inches at most. AFter I moved to new york, and after I went to music school, I came to understand the rock idiom, and the power and driving force of playin rock drums. It's not for the feint hearted. I developed much more attack and velocity, such that my medium level was 12-18 inches off the heads (with a harsh wrist snap), and my loud levels were kenny aronoff's 2-3 feet off, with a wrist snap and much more force and drive.

Well, I think the pads are set with their 1-100 rating, but with 100 being the 18" away from the drum, because I didn't hear a whole lot of difference between _my_ medium and loud and extra loud playing (mf - f -fff playing). Anyone know whether the 1-100 setting can be reset to demonstrate responnsiveness at the very loud levels?

The other reason I enjoyed the rolands more is with my style of playin most of my snare shots are some variety of rim shots. the yamaha rims have a slight depth difference, whereas the rolands are a bit deeper and it's easier to find the sweet spot to dig in for rim shots on the roland. It's just a playing style thing. . . but it is a difference that was important to me.

All that said it was a kick to go in and play along. I wish I had brought my own ipod to run it through. Also I should have brought sticks, but it was all spur of the moment.

So, can one use roland pads to trigger sounds from a non-roland brain? Is it a headache? I suppose the other real question is this: Since there are so many great drum samples out there, isn't it more smart to buy a system that allows expansion and the addition of one's kit sounds into your brain to expand your own possibilities?

Thanks for any input! This is pretty fun!!!

--Craig.

[Scorch Whammin]

Hey All,

Again, thanks for all the insight.

I did go to Guitar Center yesterday and they were kind enough to throw some headphones and sticks at me and let me bang away for an hour or so (time flies when you're having fun!).

I tried the yamaha dtx-III (or IV not sure) -- it was ~$3k. Unfortunately neither the bass drum nor the hihat worked for the drum kit -- so the playing was pretty awkward.

I also played 2 other express kits. I learned that I like the more realistic cymbals much better than the 1/4 circles that are fixed in position. So, that was a plus.

AFter I finished playing the Yamahas I played two different roland sets -- the td-9 module and the other module. I think they were something like $1500 and $2500, roughly as price points. I really liked the feel of the roland drum sets. The only hi-hat that seemed to respond to the nuance of opening and closing it was the roland set (and keep in mind, I couldn't get any hihat sound from the high end yamaha set). The particular roland set I liked, had the rack mounted remote hi-hat, that also worked as double hi-hats with a particular control.

For me, most of the songs were pretty cheesy and not a big selling point personally. I spent a lifetime in music school trying to be the classically trained, "well-rounded" good person drummer. (Meaning: the philosophy of many who teach drums says, you have to learn every style because that will make you a good drummer. At berklee it was particularly pernicious because they shunned the rock players and focused on jazz/latin/fusion. I tried to like it/love it (honest!), but in my heart I'm a hard hitting rock player. Always have been, always will be).

In any event, I know I won't use the fusion sets ups, or the bossa set ups, or the jazz tunes. Not interested.

The other interesting thing about playing on those kits -- is the dynamic range and where it's set. For me, when I was young, my rock dynamic range was quite limited. My sticks came off the set 12-18 inches at most. AFter I moved to new york, and after I went to music school, I came to understand the rock idiom, and the power and driving force of playin rock drums. It's not for the feint hearted. I developed much more attack and velocity, such that my medium level was 12-18 inches off the heads (with a harsh wrist snap), and my loud levels were kenny aronoff's 2-3 feet off, with a wrist snap and much more force and drive.

Well, I think the pads are set with their 1-100 rating, but with 100 being the 18" away from the drum, because I didn't hear a whole lot of difference between _my_ medium and loud and extra loud playing (mf - f -fff playing). Anyone know whether the 1-100 setting can be reset to demonstrate responnsiveness at the very loud levels?

The other reason I enjoyed the rolands more is with my style of playin most of my snare shots are some variety of rim shots. the yamaha rims have a slight depth difference, whereas the rolands are a bit deeper and it's easier to find the sweet spot to dig in for rim shots on the roland. It's just a playing style thing. . . but it is a difference that was important to me.

All that said it was a kick to go in and play along. I wish I had brought my own ipod to run it through. Also I should have brought sticks, but it was all spur of the moment.

So, can one use roland pads to trigger sounds from a non-roland brain? Is it a headache? I suppose the other real question is this: Since there are so many great drum samples out there, isn't it more smart to buy a system that allows expansion and the addition of one's kit sounds into your brain to expand your own possibilities?

Thanks for any input! This is pretty fun!!!

--Craig.

Hey Craig,

That's typical GC...they don't seem to keep the Yamaha stuff set up right..(i.e., people mess with the settings and nobody fixes them...)..I had the same experience in the last GC I went to..(with a Xtreme IIISP also..)...that's a shame really...cause that was probably one of the nicest kit in there...and they left it out in that state??.....anyway the hihat on that kit works great...
...My set I have is the orig. DTXtreme RHP kit (but with the new III module)...which basically means it can accept mesh heads and uses real rims, and I do have mesh heads on the kit...the shells are birch wood and orig. came with remo mylar heads...really don't know why Yamaha quit producing these..as I think they are some of the nicest e-pads out there...very sim. to roland pads, but nicer:):)....so I can understand you liking the feel of the roland pads, what with liking to do rim shots and all..(I do too..)...you went to berklee (in boston)??...my brother also did...back in the 70's...grad in 76...still lives and teaches in Boston..
...Yes you can use roland pads with other modules...and vice versa...as I used to use a roland module with my yamaha kit...but I would recommend trying out whatever combo to make sure.... you think you might want..I can also attest to the roland pads working with the III module cause I've tried it..(currently have a roland td-10exp. kit @ church I use...however I am selling it to get a Xtreme IIISP kit)...anyway good luck with whichever way you go....:)