A Module Comparison

[TAKnipe]

Since Sal volunteered to gather the facts for our spreadsheet of drum modules. I would like to make this a team project with the members supporting Sal to find out the facts and for us to ultimately have a spreadsheet of all of the features for each Companies premiere drum module. Lets see if we can agree with this list:

Roland TD20
Yamaha DTXtreme 3
2Box Drummit 5
Alesis DM10

If anyone wants to add another please just add it on here.

List Price
Retail or Street Price
Inputs & Size
Outputs & Size
Headphone Out & size
Aux In & Size
Number of Preset Kits
Number of User Kits
Polyphony
On Board Faders
number of (stock) internal sounds
Built in Sequencer
Multiple sound assignment on a single zone
Ability to upload new sounds or sound sets
real drum samples utilized ?
Sampling ability
Sampling memory
MIDI
External Storage Device (Yes/No)
External Storage Device (Types)
External Storage Maximum Size
Pad configuration/Zones


Then we can decide on the parameters to be added in the spreadsheet. This will be a great resource for newbies and experienced users alike and will remove all doubt about what features each module has. Tom :)

[dschrammie]

That list is great with me since I have no experience with any of them, therefore can offer no input whatsoever. :D

[Hellfire]

Since Sal volunteered to gather the facts for our spreadsheet of drum modules. I would like to make this a team project with the members supporting Sal to find out the facts and for us to ultimately have a spreadsheet of all of the features for each Companies premiere drum module. Lets see if we can agree with this list:

Roland TD20
Yamaha DTXtreme 3
2Box Drummit 5
Alesis DM10

If anyone wants to add another please just add it on here.

Then we can decide on the parameters to be added in the spreadsheet. This will be a great resource for newbies and experienced users alike and will remove all doubt about what features each module has. Tom :)
Great idea Tom! I would ask that the price be included as well. My reason for saying that is Alesis sees the DM10 as a budget module/kit and I think that needs to be kept in context. I have been reading the DM10 module's manual so I guess I can help some.

[TAKnipe]

Hey phil, I think price list and street price are great on a comparison. I want to be as fair as possible and want only facts. Thats why we should talk about the parameters that will be added in to the spreadsheet. I will start compiling the list in my first post. We can all help figure out what parameters we want to see in the list. :D

[Sal]

other items to be considered for the list...
preprogrammed sounds; ie: Kits, voices, etc.
effects for above, basic effect loops
pad features and uses (inc's al triggers included with base kit purchase)
recording features and or import export features
internal/external memory
ease of kit set up (module / pads, etc) -plug and play
rack and hardware quality

[Hellfire]

If anyone wants to add another please just add it on here.

List Price
Retail or Street Price
Inputs
Outputs


How about also:

Number of Preset Kits
Number of User Kits
Polyphony
On Board Faders
USB port
number of (stock) internal sounds
Built in Sequencer
Multiple sound assignment on a single zone
Ability to upload new sounds or sound sets

with a little more time I'm sure I can come up with more.:D

[Hellfire]

other items to be considered for the list...
preprogrammed sounds; ie: Kits, voices, etc.
effects for above, basic effect loops
pad features and uses (inc's al triggers included with base kit purchase)
recording features and or import export features
internal/external memory
ease of kit set up (module / pads, etc) -plug and play
rack and hardware quality
Some of those sound good too, however we might want to stay away from things like "ease of kit set up". My reason for that is, that is not a tangible thing you can put your finger on. Its an opinion.

I don't know, maybe I will be out voted on that one.

Just a thought. I do understand why you would want that however.

[TAKnipe]

Phil, I added your recomendations. We should come up with all we can and then decide how to arrange them. Thanks, Tom

I added them in my first post. We will try to get official reviews done and then add this as a sticky on the product page or add a new forum. Once it is complete we can password protect it and then make it available.

[Scorch Whammin]

Also...

whether real drum samples are used...:)
sampling ability..:)

[TAKnipe]

Scott, I added those in the first post, I deleted the smilies :D T

[CaTaPulT]

Instead of the USB catagory, split that one into two.
MIDI = USB or standard in out ports
External Storage Device = USB/CF card/SmartMedia card, etc
Since different modules use the old standard midi in and out and some use USB to midi, it's nice to know, tells you if you'll need to buy a external midi to USB device.
External Storage Device, here again, nice to know since some cards are getting hard to find due to being old technology, this is a valuable piece of info.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[dschrammie]

I think you'll also want to define what the inputs & outputs are. 1/4 inch...stereo...piezo/switch vs. piezo/piezo and what that means with regards to pad type (and if some inputs are one kind or another)...headphone input type (1/4" or 1/8")...are outputs direct out, pre/post fader, etc....stuff like that.

[TAKnipe]

Jack, I added yours and tried to word it for the spreadsheet. Let me know how it reads? Tom

[TAKnipe]

I think you'll also want to define what the inputs & outputs are. 1/4 inch...stereo...piezo/switch vs. piezo/piezo and what that means with regards to pad type (and if some inputs are one kind or another)...headphone input type (1/4" or 1/8")...are outputs direct out, pre/post fader, etc....stuff like that.

I added these David and incorporated them under their names. Outputs & Size. Tom

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Tom.
Instead of having all the midi and USB stuff listed, just list "Midi" as a title, depending on the module, it'll be either "USB to Midi built in" or "Midi in/out Ports (midi to USB interface optional)". This would streamline the document and make it easier to enter the data into the database, less confusing

USB port (s) <kill this>
USB Functions <kill this>
MIDI In/Out <just list MIDI, kill the In/Out>

External Storage Device = USB/CF card/SmartMedia card, etc <keep this, list this as "External Storage Device" then the data for the module you are listing will say USB flash drive or CF card or SM card or any other device here>

External Storage Device (Types accepted Card,Flash drive) <not needed same as above, kill it>

The less fields you have in your comparison, the easier it will be to navigate and enter the data?
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[dschrammie]

USB port (s) <kill this>
USB Functions <kill this>
MIDI In/Out <just list MIDI, kill the In/Out>


I disagree...some MIDI devices have a MIDI In/Out/Thru, and some just have MIDI In/Out...I think that should be defined if it is, in fact, not the same for all modules in the comparison.

[Hellfire]

I disagree...some MIDI devices have a MIDI In/Out/Thru, and some just have MIDI In/Out...I think that should be defined if it is, in fact, not the same for all modules in the comparison.
Yes, some do have the Thru, but not the ones in the spread sheet:

Roland TD20 - midi in/out
Yamaha DTXtreme 3 - midi in/out/USB
2Box Drummit 5 - midi in/out/USB
Alesis DM10 - midi in/out/USB

[TAKnipe]

I think Jack is referring to the category name, which would mean we would be adding in the actual module information in the cell under the module name. Like this:

Roland TD 20 Xtreme 3 2 Box DM 10
Midi in/out/thru usb in/out, usb in/out in/out/usb

That way we can add more info and make the categories less confusing.

[CaTaPulT]

Thanks for the input guys, I stand corrected, didn't know about the midi through thing! :)
But that would still be under the "MIDI" heading?
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

I changed it to midi and we can add other information under the heading of midi, I am sure it will fit or we can change it if we find we need to add more information.

[dschrammie]

Yes, some do have the Thru, but not the ones in the spread sheet:

Roland TD20 - midi in/out
Yamaha DTXtreme 3 - midi in/out/USB
2Box Drummit 5 - midi in/out/USB
Alesis DM10 - midi in/out/USB

well, there ya go then. makes sense to eliminate some of the detail if they're all the same then.

[TAKnipe]

Here is my first draft, I will send the xls file to Sal and we will start putting it together and also I will start researching more facts and information. Effects people we need to spruce up on the new modules. I have the 2box manual, the roland manual and the Xtreme 3 manual. I will look over at DMdrummer.com to see if I can download the DM 10 manual and we can start working on the spreadsheet.

I want to get in depth, I also want to inquire with you guys how we will trat the COSM aspect? Yamaha's number of effects. There are some aspects of each module that handle tasks differently but have the same functionality. How do we treat this?

This is just a draft of the form, I only put test information that I was somewhat sure about so it looked somewhat normal. T

[Hellfire]

DM10 Specs
MAP Price - $1499
Polyphony - 64
Trigger Inputs - 12 dual zone (can be 24 signal zones when split)
Outputs - 4
Headphone - Yes 1/4"
Aux In - Yes RCA phono
Preset Kits - 100
User Kits - 100 (can also save over Presets making 200 User Kits)
Onboard Faders - Yes
Number of Internal Sounds - 1,047
Sequencer - Yes
Sampling Ability - No
Sound Layering - Yes
Ability to bring in New Samples - Yes
Midi - in/out/USB

[Hellfire]

I want to get in depth, I also want to inquire with you guys how we will trat the COSM aspect? Yamaha's number of effects. There are some aspects of each module that handle tasks differently but have the same functionality. How do we treat this?


Good question, because COSM is the effects processor on the Roland modules. Maybe effects should be handled with some kind of note feature in the spread sheet?:confused:

Your guess is as good as mine.

[TAKnipe]

DM10 Specs
MAP Price - $1499
Polyphony - 64
Trigger Inputs - 12 dual zone (can be 24 signal zones when split)
Outputs - 4
Headphone - Yes 1/4"
Aux In - Yes RCA phono
Preset Kits - 100
User Kits - 100 (can also save over Presets making 200 User Kits)
Onboard Faders - Yes
Number of Internal Sounds - 1,047
Sequencer - Yes
Sampling Ability - No
Sound Layering - Yes
Ability to bring in New Samples - Yes
Midi - in/out/USB

I will also add the kit price and then the Module prices ala carte. Thanks for the specs so far Phil. I am sure we will add more to the list. I want add a section for just effects on each module and maybe a write up of sorts. This is a great project, I am enjoying it.

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Tom.
So far the spreadsheet look pretty good. :)
The only problem I see is some of the cells could be rather large due to much information for that category.
In example, DTXtreme III Sampling memory, to list details you might have to include the following information.....
Sampling memory: Yes, Optional, 2 x 168 pin PC100/PC133 DIMM sockets, up to 512megs Sampling RAM (2 x 256 meg DIMMs), must be perfectly match pair of DIMMs

As you can see, this one cell in the spreadsheet may make the whole spreadsheet look lopsided?
Unless you can setup the spreadsheet like using "Frames" in HTML where the frame/cell is given a size it cannot exceed?
I know nothing about spreadsheets.
If you need help with this, Debbie says it's possible, she's a good with Excel. :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

Hi Jack, I sent the spreadsheet to Sal since he volunteered. I worked on it quite a bit since the jpeg adding DM10 specsand more DTXtreme specs. I asked Sal to pasword protect it and then I will distribute the password to those of us working on it.

I will forward it to Debbie also when Sal has it protected. We can all work on it and see where it goes. I want to work on the effect section since that is where most of the problems will occur with a comprehensive evaluation. Yamaha uses so many effects and types of effects and Roland's COSM will have to be broken down and explained that it will take some cell merging and pictures or files added to make sure its correct. I want as much input from the members here and incorporate as much pertinent information as possible. I sent Sal the 2box manual that I had received a while back to sort through and Hellfire is our resident Alesis expert and Jack, Scott, Alvis on the Xtreme 3 and I will work on the TD20 specs from the manual and ask Ron to spearhead that effort.

I dont want anyone to say we are unfair.

[CaTaPulT]

Sounds good Tom.
Agreed, this is a fair comparison, stick to the facts, no more, no less, and this way all modules will be viewed as they are and compared fairly by potential buyers or just people wishing to see what features the other eDrummers are using with different modules.
Great idea! :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[WildWes]

Thanks Tom for not including me as I don't own any of these modules (unless you consider Scott's still mine that he's upgrading and will eventually sell back to me dirt cheap when he buys the latest greatest need to have next generation module :-)

I dont want anyone to say we are unfair.

It won't be unfair as long as Rolands positional sensoring is determined the best feature of all modules being compared. See how fair that can be - hahahaha

[TAKnipe]

Sal did a great job and we will post up a version of this but we will be sending it out to the various experts to view. This is just a draft so there are corrections to be done. Sal suggested sending it to one persona at a time for changes and revisions.

1) MoonShdw & Catapult gets first crack at it.
2) Alvis Module - Master (Xtreme3)
3) Scott - Grasshopper (Xtreme 3)
4) Phil (Alesis DM10)
5) Ron (TD20 & TD 20Sx)
6) Sal (2box) Sal is becoming our resident 2 box expert
7) Tom (I dabble in the Xtreme 3)
8) _______________________
9) _______________________

Please sign up if you want any input or to make changes.

I will forward the password to anyone with the spreadsheet. Please do not give the password to Wes as he will add the TD10 expanded in there and start deleting all work not related to the TD10 Expanded. LOL Just kidding Wes, if you want to be the Roland Rep be my guest. I am happy to include you in on this.

I can also help with the TD20sx since I had a TD20 and still know a little about that module.

Thanks to everyone with their suggestions, we are still accepting them and any proposed changes that are needed. Tom

Oh btw, I want to share this with DMdrummer.com and also the unofficial 2box forum id they want to use it. Maybe we can forge some alliances and can work together in the future with these community projects.

[CaTaPulT]

Sounds good Tom.
Debbie is working days for a couple days so she might not have time to look at it till her next days off since she works 12 hour shifts.
She's pretty handy with excel so if she sees any way of improving the cell layout, we'll do it on a copy of the original and send it back for perusal! :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

Well i can honestly say we have alot of dedicated and talented people at EDF. Thanks for all the input and keep it coming. Please if something is out of whack just tell us and we can change it. i do know that the prices are out of whack and we will get it straight but i want everyone to look at it and see if you like it. Thanks, Tom

[Hellfire]

Well i can honestly say we have alot of dedicated and talented people at EDF. Thanks for all the input and keep it coming. Please if something is out of whack just tell us and we can change it. i do know that the prices are out of whack and we will get it straight but i want everyone to look at it and see if you like it. Thanks, Tom
Thanks for putting up the image. I use a Mac and can't view the spreadsheet in its native format.:(

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Tom.
I downloaded the spreadsheet but Debbie can't load it, she is using Excel 2003 and when trying to load, we get the "not proper file format" message and can't load it into Excel. :(
Anyone else having this problem?
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

Hi Tom... might have it loading, at first, I downloaded the spreadsheet and it didn't want to load from our computer, Debbie just tried loading it straight from the website and we got the password prompt (looks promising), now's the problem, need the password! LOL :D

[WildWes]

I just right clicked and selected "open link" to view the spread sheet.

Did I violate any law of quantum physics? Hahahaha

[Sal]

i cant get it to open, and i created the damn thing!

[CaTaPulT]

Debbie just got it to work, she saved it to her machine but deleted the numbers in the file name and it worked.
She has no time to look it over, her next days off start on Monday, she'll eyeball it then.
Debbie just mentioned, she went to the Microsoft site and got the file converter for 2007, maybe that's what some of us need, just like microsoft, don't make anything backward compatible!
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[alviswesley]

Tom, So far the only thing I see to be corrected with the III is the number of trigger inputs. It has 13 stereo + 2 mono = 15 Instead of 16. Looking good, Alvis

[CaTaPulT]

Tom, So far the only thing I see to be corrected with the III is the number of trigger inputs. It has 13 stereo + 2 mono = 15 Instead of 16. Looking good, Alvis

Alvis is right......
12 x 3 zone inputs (including the extra inputs)
1 x 2 zone (hihat input)
2 x 1 zone (kick input splittable to two single zone with Y-adapter or using the input at the front of the kick pad)
The Hihat controller input should not be counted as a input.
Thus 15 inputs
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

I thought someone said the Hi hat is also 3 zone, I think I remember someone saying that at DTX forums, it might even have been one of use. Someone was talking about using a 3 zone cymbal. Oh well, I know the kick drum is splittable. I made the 16 input error. Dam I must have had 2s on the brain. Thanks Guys, T :)

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Tom.
You had me curious there for a sec, I thought maybe it was a 3 zone input, so I tried a PCY-135 in the hihat input, changed the trigger type to PCY-135 (3 zone pad) and tried setting a ride cymbal to that pad, The edge and bow worked normally but the bell had the same sound as the edge, so indeed the hihat input is 2 zone.... too bad too, a 3 zone hihat pad would have been a welcomed addition! :)
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[BobbyMck2]

What about

Playability/Compatibility

I also have no knowledge of these modules, so I'm off the hook on this one :)

[Hellfire]

I know this might seem like an odd ball out request but should the Simmons SD9K be included in this spread sheet? I know it is not on par with the rest of the kits but, it is the top of the line Simmons kit at this time. It might also give a good reference for people starting out in edrums what $1000.00 gets you. Just a thought.

[WildWes]

I noticed on the chart it states N/A for a TD-20 Aux In jack. It does have a Mix In jack, which is basically the same thing by a different name, isn't it? WW

http://edrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=223&d=1252025800

[amonline]

Just saw this.

Missing the 4 Aux 2z's under "configuration" on the TD-20.
Missing Digital Out (S/PDIF) on the TD-20.
Missing 12 outputs on the TD-20. (counting midi and headphone)
Missing Mix-In as Aux-In. (as stated above)
Missing 50 Preset kits. (maybe you didn't count them because they suck? LOL) :D
Missing "over 800" sounds. (w/ expansion)

There's more, but I stopped at that.

[WildWes]

Just saw this.

Missing the 4 Aux 2z's under "configuration" on the TD-20.
Missing Digital Out (S/PDIF) on the TD-20.
Missing 12 outputs on the TD-20. (counting midi and headphone)
Missing Mix-In as Aux-In. (as stated above)
Missing 50 Preset kits. (maybe you didn't count them because they suck? LOL) :D
Missing "over 800" sounds. (w/ expansion)

There's more, but I stopped at that.

If there's more amonline, bring it up. The purpose of creating this chart was to accurately reference the features of the topline modules for those interested in upgrading.

Plus, I'm thinking it'll probably cut down on typing "UTFSE". Hahahahaha

[amonline]

It'd be easier if I had the spreadsheet. Tom, can you email me that? (I assume it's Excel?)

[Sal]

The info I added was what I could locate online and received from various users, PLEASE (as mentioned) keep the info flowing so we can make the comparison as acurate / pertinent as possible.

Thanks!

[TAKnipe]

It'd be easier if I had the spreadsheet. Tom, can you email me that? (I assume it's Excel?)


Sure Alan, I would appreciate any help you could give. Tom

I think one of the biggest problems we have been discussin is how to treat the effects section. T

[CaTaPulT]

I have to agree with Tom.
The effects section could prove to be a challenge, for example, flanger, how many effects and how many variations of each, same goes for compressor and many others.
Depending on the module, you could write a small manual just to describe or list the effects section.
This is one section that might be best left to the manufacturer spec sheet of each module listed? (for spreadsheet example "Effects 30 with variations of each effect")
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[jrcel]

I've got one for you, Emulator X3. While not specifically a drum module per se' it can be very easily be used as one helluva' module holding literally thousands of huge kits that stream from your hard drive and can be called up via midi. It samples and can be manipulated almost unlimitedly from a variety of percussive or any type of controller.

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=501&subcategory=168&product=17681

[Hellfire]

So... Where does the spreadsheet stand right now?

[Hellfire]

So... Where does the spreadsheet stand right now?

Just a bump. :D

[Hellfire]

We may now have a price for the DM10 module to put in the spread sheet. According to this online retailer:

http://www.musiciansbuy.com/Alesis-DM10.html (http://www.musiciansbuy.com/Alesis-DM10.html)

The Alesis DM10 module's price is $599.00. I'm in the process now of trying to confirm this price with Alesis.

***************
UPDATE: THIS IS NOT REAL!!! According to Hellfire Drums sources. Message from source states:

This is not real.
Alesis is not yet offering the DM10 module alone to dealers.

Sorry, I guess I pulled the trigger a little early on this one.

[larlev]

I didn't think the DM10 allowed external sampling. Is this a new feature?