Cost of Shelled E-Drum pads

[dauzman]

Hey guys,
Looking for some input. Just saw a post on Vdrum forum about my new Shelled drum pads with rubber heads. A response from Hellfire drums stated that the pads were a bit pricey. Im offering a 8" pad for 229.00 and 249.00 for a 10". It seems that these prices are cheap next to any other shelled drum pads offered by anyone. I am using Quality parts , Keller Shells, Pearl mounts and includes a pearl mounting arm and a rim condom to quite the rim. These suckers are expensive to make and still my prices are far lower then anyone else as far as I know... What do you think they should cost. Rolands pads are not even a real wood shell and they get 400 per pad. Any input is appreciated... Thanks

[TAKnipe]

Dan, I have been fighting that battle for years, I think the price is spot on and reasonable. There are alot of folks in the e drum market that want it for little or nothing. They will pay $450.00 for what essentially is a Remo acousticon (Buzz word for MDF) or plood as we like to call it here and complain about the prices.

The others turn around and call your products pricey lol kind of humorous.

I sell e shells and I have decided long ago, I make custom drums and e shells for discriminating customers. They are not cheap and I am not out there selling my stuff at flea market prices. I have helped people in the past with cost related items if they are members or friends.


I looked at your stuff and I have owned Dauz pads in the past and will again in the future. What I see is a great looking product at a reasonable price. Not only that but you offer something no one else does and that says alot too me. Keep up the great work and dont worry about what a few people say. I cant believe the rubber headed drums havent exploded on the scene yet, its the perfect product for those of us that like rubber but want a real drum with a rubber head. Tom

Feel free to post pictures when you have time or a new product coming out. :)

We are going to get a link up on friends of EDF on the Portal page and when you get a chance come back one evening for a chat with some of our Senior members in a friendly enviroment. They are a great bunch and come from all over the world.

[dschrammie]

Hmmmm...I'm a total cheapskate and even I think that's reasonable, at least in comparison to the competition. It's interesting...if it doesn't say Roland or Yamaha (or even Hart, to some extent), people seem to just expect that means it must be cheap. The odds are likely that a lot of people don't know your product and don't know the quality level...granted, I have no basis of judgement of the quality, but I've certainly seen enough from more experienced fellas here, like Tom, to believe that the Dauz products are just as good as the more expensive competition.
My guess is that your shelled rubber pads are probably very cool, and are probably also only going to attract a smaller niche. That's not a bad thing though.
I'd love to see photos as well!

[dauzman]

Thanks Tom... Ive seen your stuff and I know what it takes to make a product of that quality ...Im right there with you ... We all want to pay the least and get the most ... I might not be a Roland or Yamaha and wouldnt want to be ... Just because most users of these products are told what to buy from a uneducated source or someone with a agenda. You get what you pay for and a educated customer is my favorite because they know why they are making a purchase for ,not because of a flashy add or cause their friend has one. Believe me if I had 1/4 of the budget Roland and Yamaha had we would all have better edrum sets and pay way less money. I do this cause Im passionate about it and I care what I put my name on . I only wish this were true about the big manufactures who only care about profit margin and planned obsolesence.

[TAKnipe]

Dan, I couldnt agree more with you, I do think that in Yamaha's case they try to give their customers the best products they can at what I consider a reasonable price point. I also think that as you said an educated consumer is great for you because they know what they want and in most cases they can express to you what they want. There are people out there that also dont fit into any mold, they want a wood shelled drum with a rubber head that wears like iron and wants a great feeling also.

I begged Dan to become a member here. My reasons were many, I want manufacturers that offer great products and that care about the community. I think John Emerich said it best about EDF during the slogan contest with his entry "The search for the Truth" Thats the guiding principle to having an excellent forum, be open to new things and to explore things we havent seen before. We dont endorse any one product we endorse learning about all of them and the people behind them and expanding what we thought we knew. I am extremely happy that we can have Dan here as a member and also as one of the foremost pad manufacturers in the e drum community.

Coming down off my soap box now

Dave I am very intrigued by rubber headed pads in a wood shell drum, I loved the feel of the regular Dauz pads so it has to be atleast that good if not even better. IMHO

[CaTaPulT]

Hi Dan.
I understand your view and have to agree, there are alternatives to the big corporations and that there are still people like yourself and Tom who are real craftsmen, bringing your art form to those who know enough to purchase your products. I've often just gazed at Tom's work, most of the drum shells he makes are simply beautiful, and I'm sure he has great pride when someone gets his artwork and that customer gets much enjoyment out of the hard work and long hours spent on that product. My hat is off to you guys for what you do.
The small customer base you guys have is in a way a good thing, if everyone on the planet wanted your products, then you too would be forced to become another Roland or Yamaha or Pintech, etc. Keep it small and keep it real!
Best of luck to you both.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[dauzman]

Tom,
You are so on... I love seeing educated people saying common sense things. Im in total agreement with you about Yamaha. They often get a bad rap unfairly. Roland is the one company who have driven the Edrum market off a cliff and so many have jumped on their bandwagon of hype. There are some advancements that they brought edrums to the masses they also have killed advancement of the instrument. Back in the late 80's and 90's it was so exciting with the power and control that offered to drummers by the KAT product line , only to be killed by the dumbed down products offered by Roland and they still do it today... I like Yamaha stuff they offer great products with features that matter . We all want the most expressive instrument to perform on and controller features should matter Roland has taken that away from us and limits their products so users will want their next version of the version before.... Urgggghhhhh

[Hellfire]

Hey guys,
Looking for some input. Just saw a post on Vdrum forum about my new Shelled drum pads with rubber heads. A response from Hellfire drums stated that the pads were a bit pricey. Im offering a 8" pad for 229.00 and 249.00 for a 10". It seems that these prices are cheap next to any other shelled drum pads offered by anyone. I am using Quality parts , Keller Shells, Pearl mounts and includes a pearl mounting arm and a rim condom to quite the rim. These suckers are expensive to make and still my prices are far lower then anyone else as far as I know... What do you think they should cost. Rolands pads are not even a real wood shell and they get 400 per pad. Any input is appreciated... Thanks
Since my name was mentioned (and before I'm looked at as a bad guy), I thought I better clarify. For me they are pricey, but I have never been able to afford an off the shelf edrum kit or pieces to make a kit. Comparatively, your prices are fine. It is just too rich for me. [and no I'm not type that will pay $450.00 for what essentially is a Remo acousticon (Buzz word for MDF) or plood as we like to call it here and complain about the prices. As you say Tom];)

It was never meant to come off, that the quality of your product doesn't justify the price. On the contrary, I'm just not able to afford quality built stuff. Hence, why I use (aka, make my stuff from) MDF and cake pans.;) (look at the DIY section, and you will understand this statement.)

[Hellfire]

... Just because most users of these products are told what to buy from a uneducated source or someone with a agenda.
I sure hope to god you are not talking about me.:mad:

I will admit to having an agenda, you know, my Hellfire drums pod cast. Getting an interview with you possibly in the future to talk about your products would be great for my agenda.:D

[dauzman]

No offense taken. I did see your post on Vdrum forum and questioned your pricey comment. Many items are pricey but in comparison to what or in who's opinion. A individual opinion with no point of reference is a blind statement and only spreads untrue information. As for my uneducated comment it was not steered to you . I see you do alot to educate people on the subject of E-Drumming..... Best of luck always...

[Hellfire]

A individual opinion with no point of reference is a blind statement......

I would agree.

.....and only spreads untrue information.

No it doesn't.

Untrue information is spread when people read a statement and assume something was meat by that statement that was not said.

I can honestly tell you I am shocked that a four word statement "a tad bit pricey" has turned into a thread. To me saying "a tad bit pricey" is the same as saying "it is a tad bit pricey to me". The reason for that is, my name is attached to the statement. I thought it was obvious that statement was from my view point. I'm sorry but I do not like your above statement,
A individual opinion with no point of reference is a blind statement and only spreads untrue information.
If that is the case then you are stating that I am spreading untrue information. I am not spreading untrue information, by an opinion. An opinion is just that, an opinion.

On a side note:
I think it is time that I take a break from edrum forums in general. :mad:

[dauzman]

Wow !!! Maybe if you said it was a opinion it would have never been brought up. I think your being a bit sensitive ....Hate to see this end this way when I was clarifying untrue information you posted... The pads are not pricey... They are inexpensive to comparable shelled pads as agreed to by other members.

[TAKnipe]

Phil, I dont think we were using your statement as a direct quote, I think both Dan and I were speaking in generalities. I do think that other people would say that $249.99 is too expensive for a pad. I have witnessed it at other times and in other forums. But in now way were we directing any ire towards your direction.

I face the same thing in acoustic drums day in and day out. We were clearly speaking to a particular mindset out there.

I understand where you are coming from but please dont take offense.

There have been times at VDrums.com where I have told people that ask about using Yamaha cymbals with Roland brains that I have suggested that they not do that and that Roland cymbals are designed for Roland brains. I have been using Yamaha PCY series cymbals for a long time, they are moderately priced but wear like iron and play very very well. I dont do that to be unfair to Yamaha but whenever I detect someone is basing their shopping on cymbals merely on one thing alone (Price) I always answer that they should purchase the cymbal that their module manufacturer made. They talk about how cheap Yamaha cymbals are versus Roland, they never discuss triggering, feel or anything else they just want to know if it will work. Its the mindset I see quite often and its a disturbing trend.

Nowadays with the explosion of new equipment everywhere you look we will see kits with equipment from 4 manufacturers all working in total harmony. Price is only one way of determining whats best for an individual, to me its always feel, price is way down on the list. I understood your post at the "V" very well and never took it as a negative. But you need to know that there are others out there who we are talking about where price is the only criteria used and nothing else is even looked at. I think those folks are missing out on some great products out there.

Sorry you took offense, nothing was directed at you personally or even at your post. We were merely speaking to a mindset as I explained above.

Tom

[WildWes]

I'm thinking we all need a big group hug..............C'mon, you know you want to. Think how warm and fuzzy we'll all feel afterwards.

[CaTaPulT]

Personally, I happen to enjoy Hellfire's (Phil) input on this forum, I greatly enjoy his podcasts and all the work he does for the eDrum community.
So he said something someone didn't like even though it wasn't understood in the context it was meant, the part that is really starting to annoy the hell out of me, is it was orriginally said on another forum, can't stuff being said on that forum stay on that forum and not be brought here to EDF?
If you guys want to hash out what happens at the V-place, then PM yourselves or use the shoutbox but what happens there, happens there, it's why I don't go there, and I'd prefer not to see what goes on there over here at EDF.
I'm not trying to quiet free speech by any means, but there are reasons why some of us don't go to Vdrums.com, I'd hate to see those same reasons being the reason for not coming here as well.
Nuff said.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

Its ok, it was a misunderstanding, Dan and i were speaking about a particular mindset that didnt have anything to do with Phil.

In reality were were talking about people that form opinions on products without a great wealth of knowlege behind the original opinion. This is exactly what we try to avoid here. It is a prevalent theme in the e drumming community and something I know Phil works hard at combatting in the community every day.

The nice thing was that someone that reads this forum brought the topic of Dauz pads to the V and I think thats a plus. The more people that learn about Dauz and Dan in general the more they will want his products, I had some experience with his pads and I thought drummers here needed a formal introduction to Dauz. Its the kind of thing we want to do here and be able to discuss.

So no worries :)

[Hellfire]

....Hate to see this end this way when I was clarifying untrue information you posted...

You know, I came back because I thought maybe you really are not trying to say I spread falsehoods. I come back and find your above statement. This is totally unbelievable!

Phil, I dont think we were using your statement as a direct quote,


You may not be Tom, but Mr. Dauz is.

You know, I don't even know you Mr Dauz. I know of your company. I was actually excited about the fact that you were now on here. Let's just say I'm not so excited any longer.

You do realize that by stating you wanted to clarify my "untrue" information that you are calling me a liar or at the very least a person who spreads falsehoods?

I can honestly say that I never thought this would happen on eDf. The other site yes, but not here.

I've had two instances in two weeks time of people reading something into what I wrote that was not there. One on the other site and now one here. I just don't get it.

Time for a redo.......
-------------------------------------------------------

Welcome to the forum dauzman!

It's great to see a major edrum manufacturer getting involved in the online community. I had a chance to look over your product line on your website. Very cool stuff. Unfortunately, your equipment is a bit out of my price range. However, your prices are definitely on par (if not better) than most of your competitors.

I look forward to seeing more of you around eDf.

[dauzman]

This has all gotten way out of hand.... These were the exact reasons I had avoided forums for years. Im not trying to get people pissed off but clarify things that can easily be misunderstood... Phil I dont even know you and am saddened that you are taking this so personally. I try very hard to to offer a quality product at a reasonable price and I dont think saying that the pads are not pricey or bringing it up was a big deal. I guess it was in your eyes... Im sorry this has caused so much grief. Both Phil and myself have something to offer the community and that is not in doubt... This is all beating a dead horse at this point .... Please let it go....

[dauzman]

Phil when this is behind us I have no doubts that we both will realize we have a lot in common and have a new respect for each other .... Wishing you always the best !!!

[Hellfire]

Phil when this is behind us I have no doubts that we both will realize we have a lot in common and have a new respect for each other .... Wishing you always the best !!!
Consider it behind us.

How long have you had those rubber headed drum triggers for sale? They do look nice.

[WildWes]

Consider it behind us.

Phil when this is behind us I have no doubts that we both will realize we have a lot in common and have a new respect for each other .... Wishing you always the best !!!

See! I knew a group hug could happen :-)

The force has been restored :-)

All is one within the universe :-)

The circle of hands is complete :-)

We are family again :-)

All modules are synchronized in a continuous loop :-)

It's a 4/4 world again :-)

All you need is luv :-)

[dauzman]

Back to business as usual..... Im glad... Phil... Thanks.... I have been making them a few months... They have been in the works for a while getting all the components for the initial production and testing. I had wanted to do it for a while but had to have a customer beat me over the head to actually get it going...

[sam(otacon28)]

See! I knew a group hug could happen :-)

The force has been restored :-)

All is one within the universe :-)

The circle of hands is complete :-)

We are family again :-)

All modules are synchronized in a continuous loop :-)

It's a 4/4 world again :-)

All you need is luv :-)

^ This sounds like some lyrics to a song that would surely be on my playlist on my Ipod :D .


I do agree with some of the points addressed in here though . I've been around drum forums for several years now , and there's usually alot of emphasis thrown down on a name brand , more than what specifically the name brand offers that the others don't for the player ( or even more of an advanced version of option it offers ) . I've been playing various brands of gear over the years and my set-up is far from being put together because of what name is on the tag . I figure out what I'm looking to do with my kit and build one that fits my needs with the gear that is out there after looking at various Brands and models .

As it is within the custom drum side of things there's alot more options out there now than before , but people really should examine things a bit more than what the price tag is or who's brand name is on it . I personally have tried and played around with alot of various electronic drum gear over the years ( since actually back in the big 80's analog kit days , ex. Casio , Tama Techstar , Simmonz , etc. ) and while some things worked well for my needs other higher priced ones didn't and were swapped out ( or vise-versa ) . I have always felt that with electronic gear & acoustic stuff that it should be first and foremost what the player's needs and situation requires more than " This is the gear to buy because it has the ( IT ) factor " or " I couldn't see spending that kind of money on something unless it was a Insertbrandnamehere "


I applaud anyone who is still working on bringing new fresh designs , while still staying true to their products roots of quality to open up more options for drummers of the world . I have an affiliation with a few electronic companies and even though alot of great ideas get shot down or halted because of copyright legalities it's nice to see ones that actually get the chance for us drummers out there to expand our options of bringing the beat to things .


I've actually heard nothing but great reviews from anyone I have ever talked regarding Dauz products so I say great to see things are continuing with your products and newer concepts are being used to give drummers more choices . I've looked at those Dauz bones rim trigger pads a few times and they seem to be a very practical design that would really create some nice uses for the drummer in various applications .


sam(otacon28)

[WildWes]

^ This sounds like some lyrics to a song that would surely be on my playlist on my Ipod :D .

I've actually heard nothing but great reviews from anyone I have ever talked regarding Dauz products so I say great to see things are continuing with your products and newer concepts are being used to give drummers more choices . I've looked at those Dauz bones rim trigger pads a few times and they seem to be a very practical design that would really create some nice uses for the drummer in various applications. sam(otacon28)

Yeah Sam, but those guys didn't spell it like "luv". Hmmm, wonder if those guys ever made it to the top? :-O

If you look at the 12:00 position of this Pintech snare, you'll see a Dauz dog bone.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r85/WildWes_2007/kit-Apr2006.jpg

[TAKnipe]

Ahhh Wes bought up one of the great products from Dauz, for me this is my answer to most of my problems from my eshells regarding Yamaha. Adding the dogbone will give me my rim sound and the seperation I need for my crosstick sound.

BTW Dan, as we are speaking of costs, is the retail prices set for the rubber heads as of yet?

I will call you Monday for an order, I want to get a dog bone and to try the heads if possible. When i get the stuff I will do a video review here and post it here and at youtube.

On another note, now that everything is the way it should be. I wanted to say a word about manufacturers and edrum professionals on our site. I have spoken to everyone here except for Dan in person about this. We invite manufacturers here as professionals but also a people. Sometimes they post as professonals but also as people. I hope as we get more folks in the industry we try to recognize and distinguish between the two.

This thread got out of hand because I should have intervened and clarified that i misread Dan's first post. I was originally so happy that someone picked up Dan Dauz's name here and brought it back to VDrums that I misread and failed to clarify Phil's statement at VDrums. I read Phils statement originally and didnt think anything of it because I know Phil and knew exactly what he meant. I have been reading some of you guys so long now that I can read between the lines. I now have to perform my mea culpa because I could have clarified the situation from the beginning and I didnt. I had a reminder from another good friend here and went back and reread the thread and realized I blew it.

My apologies to Phil and Dan.

* As a side note, since I have been married I have noticed my own incredible ability to recognize when i am wrong and to become a better aplogizer. I have learned through marriage that I am wrong quite a bit and through a series of continuous apologies I have become quite good at this.

i hope you both accept my humblest mea culpa.

End of apology back to the thread

[dauzman]

Thank you Tom... It has been so nice hearing the comments about my products from you guys here... I am a manufacture of drum pads but Im also a edrum enthusiast who digs this stuff like the rest of you at eDF... Alot of good points made and lessons learned with this thread....What fun... We will talk Tom... Its nice to meet another brother apologizer .... I only know that story way to well....All is good !!!!

[EDrum Pro]

Well I have to put my two cents in. I just received my DAUZ Acoulike kit. I'm blown away to say the least. I know Dan's stuff is always rock solid but theses are beyond anything I've owed.The feel is the best I've played and I own a TD 20 kit. The triggering dynamics are spot on and the construction is as good as any real acoustic kit. The lugs are the same lugs as Pork Pie Percussion and triple flanged hoops are to much. You can't touch stuff like this for any price on the market and it came with 40 dollar Pearl arms and stereo cables. Are you kidding me dammmmmmmmmm i was knocked out 1000%.

[WildWes]

Well I have to put my two cents in. I just received my DAUZ Acoulike kit. I'm blown away to say the least. I know Dan's stuff is always rock solid but theses are beyond anything I've owed.The fell is the best I've played and I own a TD 20 kit. The triggering dynamics spot on and the construction is as good as any real acoustic kit. The lugs are the same lugs as Pork Pie Percussion and triple flanged hoops to much. You can't touch stuff like this for any price on the market and it came with 40 dollar Pearl arms and stereo cables. Are you kidding me dammmmmmmmmm i was knocked out 1000%.

PHOTOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (please)

[fignewton]

My turn,
I think if you put that price point too low and edrummers think..."If the price is that low it must be junk"....then if it is too high, you get "Son of a , you want how much!!!"

Good on ya for the keller shells, wonder what Roland or Hart pays for there shells??

Regardless we should know if you are gonna beat on these things you want them to last. Looking forward to some reviews, they sound rock solid

[dauzman]

I think your right on !!! I wish drummers were more interested in quality and durability. Ive always been frustrated at the reasons purchases are based ... I refuse to make crap. I dont make a sound module so I want to make better pads then the companies who only make them to sell the newest electronic boxes they plug into... Sound modules come and go but a good set of pads can last a life time... Once you use software based sounds and a capable drum controller with quality pads there isnt much reason to care about the re hashed offerings on the scene called NEW....