New Yamaha DTX950K **WOW**

[Hellfire]

http://edrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=294&stc=1&d=1261078629

You guys might want to check out the Yamaha site about this new kit. The pad technology looks fantastic! Be sure to watch the video on the Pad.

http://dtxdrums.yamaha.com/products/dtxdrums/dtx950k/

[dauzman]

Very nice.... Got to be way better then mesh !!!

[dschrammie]

How long before you guys start to try to DIY those pads?!?!! I was quite surprised by the difference in acoustic noise from the older yam. pads to these new ones. I'd be very curious to find out how they feel.
And it appears this is a different module than the DTXtreme 3, yes? I'm guess it's a step down from the DTXtreme 3? Doesn't appear to have as many "features" as the DTX3 has.

[alviswesley]

I like the new pads. I don't mind electronic looking pads but the people that wanted a more acoustic look might not be too exited. I checked the specs and the module looks to be the same as the III exept the silver around the buttons is now black. It still only has the AWM2 with 64 note poly though. Darn, I wish they would upgrade that to 128. It says you can operate cubase AI 5 from the panel. I don't know if the III can do that. Love the pads though. Time will tell how durable they are.

[Scorch Whammin]

How long before you guys start to try to DIY those pads?!?!! I was quite surprised by the difference in acoustic noise from the older yam. pads to these new ones. I'd be very curious to find out how they feel.
And it appears this is a different module than the DTXtreme 3, yes? I'm guess it's a step down from the DTXtreme 3? Doesn't appear to have as many "features" as the DTX3 has.

Just looking briefly at the specs....it appears to be the same module as the III....those new pads are definitely much quieter than the older rubber pads...I'm curious too about the feel of them..according to comments made by Yamaha personnel...there supposed to feel much more like real drums!...looks good so far!...thanks Phil for posting this!

[Hellfire]

How long before you guys start to try to DIY those pads?!?!!
Its funny you say that. Back in August I was experimenting with (what I call) solid surface trigger pads (normally rubber). I bought some silicone pot holders to run some tests. I remember saying to my wife, if only they made this stuff as a foam like neoprene (mouse pads), this would be perfect. I guess I was on the right track.:) Too bad I stopped the project.:rolleyes: I was too worried about getting money to buy the DM10 at the time.

[dschrammie]

I guess you guys know the specs of the DTX3 a lot better. I wasn't sure if it was saying that the same "layering" is available on this module as the DTX3.

I also want to know when Yam. is going to release pricing...just for curiosity's sake...I'm certainly not in the market for any new equipment! And do Yam. pad's get along with Roland modules? I can't remember if that's been an issue in the past or not.

[Scorch Whammin]

I guess you guys know the specs of the DTX3 a lot better. I wasn't sure if it was saying that the same "layering" is available on this module as the DTX3.

I also want to know when Yam. is going to release pricing...just for curiosity's sake...I'm certainly not in the market for any new equipment! And do Yam. pad's get along with Roland modules? I can't remember if that's been an issue in the past or not.

DTXperience.com says the following about the new kit price: "Two kits are in the current new series, DTX950K, a six piece Electronic Drum System with an MSRP of $8,699 / MAP $5399.99, and the five piece DTX900K that has an MSRP of $7,119.99 / MAP $4399.99."

Regarding your other question....I can only speak to the DTXtreme I RHP pads...and yes they work with either brand (module)..:)

[dschrammie]

I don't want this to turn into a roland vs. yamaha price debate because we already know that roland is way more expensive. And yeah, I understand this is new technology...but wow. That's still some darned expensive stuff.

[Hellfire]

I don't want this to turn into a roland vs. yamaha price debate because we already know that roland is way more expensive. And yeah, I understand this is new technology...but wow. That's still some darned expensive stuff.
Its expensive because of the silicone pads they are using. That is the biggest drawback to using silicone. It's expensive. I found that out the hard way.

[Hellfire]

I checked the specs and the module looks to be the same as the III exept the silver around the buttons is now black.

Looks like they took a lessen from Roland. Roland did the same thing with the TD-20 and made a TD-20x.

[alviswesley]

Good point, Phil. New pads plus new paint on the same module plus a large price increase must be the way to go right now. lol

[alviswesley]

I'm thinking the price is higher than I thought it would be. The standard kit is about $1500.00 USD over the price I paid for the III standard. For that much much money you should get more than just silicone pads. Besides, What's so great about the feel of silicone? errrr.... nevermind..... I love the feel of silicone. :)

[dauzman]

Silicone is OK for Breasts but pads ??? Maybe I might play with them more...

[CaTaPulT]

Well, from what I've seen, this looks like a re-badged DTXtreme III module, the casing is different appearance wise (all black or charcoal grey?) but looks like the same module, as Alvis pointed out, still 64 voice poly, still using DIMMS for sampling (for the life of me, I can't figure out why they didn't go with DDR ram since DIMM memory are getting hard to find). The one thing, this thing will have a new firmware, my guess is to add the configuration of the new pads (from what I've read on DTXperience) the firmware will become available for the DTXtreme III, so this automatically says it's a re-badged DTXtreme III module since if there was any serious modifications made to the internal structure of the module, the firmware wouldn't work on the III.
The new pads look impressive but again, as Alvis mentioned, we'll see how well they stand up to everyday use and abuse, that will be the big test in case they turn out to be like the KP-125 (problematic). Also, they call the kick pad the KP-125W, now will this be the same kick pad as the current KP-125 with a white rubber head or is it totally redesigned to new pad specs and have that new fancy silicone head.
Also, are these new heads replaceable by the end user, kind of like buying a new mesh head and changing out a worn one, this would be a bonus for the end user, even though I would imagine these heads will be quite pricey.
I like the way that all eDrum manufacturers claim their products feel like "Real drum heads", they are claiming this with the new pads, they claimed the same thing with the current rubber pads also. Time will tell if they feel like Mylar, my guess is NOT, only Mylar can feel like Mylar. They say kits will be available in the first quarter of 2010, my guess is, buying individual pads will be much later in the year, any stock of new pads will go towards the selling of full kits.
I do like the new pads quieter temperament room noise wise, also the higher pitch sound they make will take some getting use to for those upgrading from old to new pads.
From the new inflated price of the kit, my guess is these new pads are going to be quite pricey to upgrade to. :(
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[TAKnipe]

Well, One might say Game Set Match. If anything this proves one thing and one thing only. Yamaha is in it to win it. They seem want to be number one and they pretty much have proven that they keep making better products almost every 2 year cycle something is new and better.

I dont think anyone expected a new module and for me, the 3 does exactly what I need it to do. I have one complaint as far as the module goes, Could we have some high pitched toms please.Please could we have a downlowdable update that would give us some 6, 8, & 10 inch concert toms.

I am wondering if somewhere down the road will they make the silicone head a purchaseable upgrade kit for the TP100, 120 and KP125?? That would be great for users that have these pads and want the new pads. The pads are easy enough to take apart and repair but the reflection plate on the TP series pads is not free floating.

The new pads look nice but still electronic but if they feel great who cares, I will buy a set myself. I definitely will get one to try and then go from there and then figure out a way to introduce wood into the look of the pad. :)

[dauzman]

I think what I have is already there... Quality Keller shell, Soft gum rubber quiet playing surface, Acoustic look, Changeable heads, Solid hardware, Pads just got sent to XXX manufacture for trigger settings to match a new powerful controller at a reasonable price. More info to come on a release in 2010.... Stay tuned...

[Scorch Whammin]

I think what I have is already there... Quality Keller shell, Soft gum rubber quiet playing surface, Acoustic look, Changeable heads, Solid hardware, Pads just got sent to XXX manufacture for trigger settings to match a new powerful controller at a reasonable price. More info to come on a release in 2010.... Stay tuned...

Hey dauz...definitely post some more pics and video of new pads in action!...I would like to see that...also could other hardware be used..such as Yamaha tom mounts and lugs?

[Scorch Whammin]

The new pads look impressive but again, as Alvis mentioned, we'll see how well they stand up to everyday use and abuse, that will be the big test in case they turn out to be like the KP-125 (problematic). Also, they call the kick pad the KP-125W, now will this be the same kick pad as the current KP-125 with a white rubber head or is it totally redesigned to new pad specs and have that new fancy silicone head.

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

According to TomTom (over at DTXperience.com)..it sounds like the kick drum has been beefed up...although it also sounds like from his description that the silicone head technology is not part of the kick pad?!?!..which seems strange to me...oh well time tell....however, looking at the the snare and tom pads (the cutaway in the video)...they look to be very well made!....it does appear that Yamaha really put these things thru some rigorous testing..so hopefully they will hold up fine...also...even though I'm a wood shell kinda guy:)...I really like the look of these new pads!...very cool look!

[CaTaPulT]

My guess is the silicone heads may not be able to take the abuse of the various materials that people use for kick pedal beaters, felt might grab the silicone enough that over a short time, the silicone may start to fray, same goes with rubber beaters and so on. For main drum pads, they know people will be playing with either wood sticks or plastic or nylon tipped sticks.
The new surface for the kick is supposed to be some kind of canvas, so it should be a lot more durable than the thin rubber surface of the original KP-125.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[wbrs]

I bet the guys doing conversions are relieved. I just can't see to many of these live. Real drums look classic and drummers will never get tired of looking at them they have that awsome potential for disturbance. I think yamaha might have dropped the ball here.

[Scorch Whammin]

I bet the guys doing conversions are relieved. I just can't see to many of these live. Real drums look classic and drummers will never get tired of looking at them they have that awsome potential for disturbance. I think yamaha might have dropped the ball here.

Well I'll say this...if these pads feel as good as (and similar to) acoustic drums and don't tire your hands/wrists after playing them...then I think Yamaha will have a great product and people won't mind that they look futuristic (i.e., non-traditional)...yes I would have liked for them to look more like an acoustic drum (i.e., wood shell)..but if they feel great I won't mind that they look futuristic....:)...and to boot what e-drum company out there now is making a full kit (Yamaha, Roland, 2box, Alesis) that really looks like an acoustic kit....none of them!....personally, when I play live I would much rather play an acoustic kit...even just for the visual appeal alone!...

[wbrs]

I know what you're saying but I just think yamaha missed a big opportunity to leave every buddy in the dust and could have made it hard to catch them. Seems to me there is a demand building for E' and A's to combine. As far as I can tell there doesn't seem to be any major improvement in the sound ( sample) quality. It's great if the new heads deliver but why do they insist on forcing that crappy epad thing on us. pro drummers are the ones that would spend that kind of money on this stuff and they like their lovely looking a's better.

[wbrs]

You know the more I think about it skrew yamaha. If you had a room full of seasoned dru
mmers and there was this new kit there with one that did the same thing but was an A kit version and they took a vote which do you think would win and yamaha has got to know this . I don't expect this from 2box or Roland they don't make wonderful A kits. Either they are clueless or they just don't give a ****. My money's on they don't give a ****.

[dauzman]

Thank you.... Very well said.... I agree 100% .... You would think a company that makes great acoustic drums would use that technology to enhance their Edrums . At least offer it??? Another go round the big guys missed the boat and are charging even more.... Cant wait till the software companies kick these module making giants ass....

[Scorch Whammin]

I hear ya!..and I don't completely disagree with you...look that's why I'm playing DTXtreme I RHP's as my e-kit..cause they look more like an acoustic kit (feel and play great also...BTW.:)) than anything Yamaha/Roland...etc...has made recently...it seems to me that the only place you can get ready made e-drums (i.e., not full kits) that look like acoustics is from smaller ma & pa types (such as yourself dauz) or jobeky, diamond drums...etc..yes I was hoping that yamaha would make a comeback with the RHP's...it wouldn't cost them that much..certainly no more than what their charging for this new kit...I mean heck they can sell a full birch kit (stage custom) for under $1000!!....

[Hellfire]

Silicone isn't cheap. I looked into using silicone for my solid surface pads over the summer. We're not talking the crap you get out of a tube here. The type of Silicone use for something like this would be a two part epoxy like silicone. Over the summer when I looked into getting silicone sheet (we're talking 10 inches x 10 inches here at 1/4" inch thick) was in the price range of $60-$120 for that little piece of silicone. Just try looking up cookware made of silicone. It isn't cheap (and that stuff is only an 1/8" inch thick or thinner).

I think Yamaha made a strategic decision not to go with the RHP look because they have a large chunk of the cost in that head. Can you imagine how much those edrums would cost if the looked as good as the RHP and had that new head? They would have to charge more then Roland does.

Cant wait till the software companies kick these module making giants ass....

I don't think that is going to happen until one of those software companies team up with a company that makes one hell of a TMI. And even with that, they will still need to offer it as a complete package (with kit) tweaked and ready to go out of the box.

If consumers (majority of them) can't just pull it out of the box and flip a switch and start playing, they are not going to buy. Period.

Like some here, I think that's a shame. But that is just the reality of the edrum biz right now. New comers to edrums want them to work as easily as an acoustic set. What's really a shame is those same people see edrums as a replacement for acoustics, and they really aren't. Edrums in my eyes are a different (though very similar) instrument.

[I'm now stepping down from the soap box]

[wbrs]

Move over Roland and congradulations yamaha your the new king of the crappy looking overpriced ekit.

[dauzman]

The truth of the matter is the hay day of the module maker is nearly over... As computers get more powerful and cheaper more people will choose this route... I will assure you once a powerful controller at a reasonable cost comes out thats the game changer... Hang on guys its coming sooner then you think...

[Scorch Whammin]

I think Yamaha made a strategic decision not to go with the RHP look because they have a large chunk of the cost in that head. Can you imagine how much those edrums would cost if the looked as good as the RHP and had that new head? They would have to charge more then Roland does.

New comers to edrums want them to work as easily as an acoustic set. What's really a shame is those same people see edrums as a replacement for acoustics, and they really aren't. Edrums in my eyes are a different (though very similar) instrument.

[I'm now stepping down from the soap box]

I hear what what you're saying Phil...buy honestly Yamaha could have charged $300-500 more [max] (and still been cheaper than Roland) for the kit and had a design with wood shells around the new pad...it wouldn't be hard to do...really all they would have had to do is flange (for the tenson rods to go thru) the metal hoop that is on this new pad (and maybe shape the hoop a little more like an A-kit hoop) and then add a wood shell to cover the guts of the pad.....:)...and I know it's just an aesthetic thing...but to me e-drums look so much nicer with a wood shell..:)

Regarding your e-kit & a-kit quote above...I also don't get it...how some folks think that e-drums are a replacement for acoustic drums..they're not!...there's a thread right now over at the other site...and some of the comments in that thread are almost comical!...and I'm not knocking e-kits, I happen to like them...but I don't ever see them replacing acoustic drums...

[Scorch Whammin]

Move over Roland and congradulations yamaha your the new king of the crappy looking overpriced ekit.

The truth of the matter is the hay day of the module maker is nearly over... As computers get more powerful and cheaper more people will choose this route... I will assure you once a powerful controller at a reasonable cost comes out thats the game changer... Hang on guys its coming sooner then you think...

I don't know if I would go that far..I don't think the pads look that bad...however, that being said......:)

We'll see on the hay day of the module maker...I don't know about that...to my mind there's too many people that like the simplicity (and reliabilty) of a module....that's one of the reasons Roland modules are so popular...they're simple to use...and pretty easy to get good sounds out of them especially if you use vex...heck, you don't even really have to (hardly) know how to operate a roland module (as far as editing goes)...just order a vex pack....and I'm not meaning that to be a knock on vex...they do a great job with their tweaks!...but it seems to me that alot of people in the e-drumming community like to keep it simple....

[CaTaPulT]

The truth of the matter is the hay day of the module maker is nearly over... As computers get more powerful and cheaper more people will choose this route... I will assure you once a powerful controller at a reasonable cost comes out thats the game changer... Hang on guys its coming sooner then you think...

Hi Dan.
Good comment considering modules like the DTXtreme III and new DTX900 are basically a computer already (2 x USB, Sampling RAM, has to boot up the OS at power up, update-able firmware) I think it's just a matter of time when the thing will have a hard drive built in and come with all the software parts on that hard drive, built in VST and upgrades will be done by downloading new kits, sounds, samples, etc, from pay for what you want sites.
If they set up these sites properly, you won't even have to back up your info, if you do a factory reset (hard disk format) then you can re-download the stuff you already bought, kind of like STEAM for computer games.
The possibilities are endless as technology advances faster than anyone can keep up.
Time will tell.
Agreed on a few points of this message thread, yes the new pads are not RHP like we were hoping for, the new pads are decent looking for what they are, and the new silicone based head surface is yet unproven, at this time next year, we'll have a better idea as to how well they stand up to use and abuse. Also, as mentioned, nothing will ever be able to replace acoustic drums, the nuances from acoustics is something I think will never be able to be reproduced to perfection.
As for the price, the $8K price going around is not what we'll see at music stores, I believe the new kit will stay slightly below the $6k range still being a whole heap cheaper than the new TD-20sk kit. The new pads have to be proven reliable and durable before many of us upgrade to them since my guess is their price tags will be substantial.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[Hellfire]

The truth of the matter is the hay day of the module maker is nearly over... As computers get more powerful and cheaper more people will choose this route... I will assure you once a powerful controller at a reasonable cost comes out thats the game changer... Hang on guys its coming sooner then you think...
You might be right Dan, but if the systems are going to be piece meal like those type of systems are now, it isn't going to happen. I don't care how good the TMI's are or the software.

It is going to take some company that is forward thinking enough to package a kit, TMI, and software together in one integrated package. Meaning the software and TMI are pre-tweaked for the kit configuration that comes with it.

[dauzman]

Thats true... But it will be almost idiot proof like it needs to be for mass sales and much cheaper... The big guys will price them selves right out of the game...

[TAKnipe]

I dont think the module makers have much to worry about yet anyway, atleast until there is some Linux software that will run BFD or the like. Microsoft is just too unreliable to be a good platform for a drum module and sample based players. I wouldnt trust it on a gig. Not even Win 7:mad: lol

[kevincool87]

...Meh. They could a done some more design on it, it looks like something that's from the 80's. Nevertheless the pad itself looks promising, I'm glad Yamaha made this move.

[wbrs]

I dont think the module makers have much to worry about yet anyway, atleast until there is some Linux software that will run BFD or the like. Microsoft is just too unreliable to be a good platform for a drum module and sample based players. I wouldnt trust it on a gig. Not even Win 7:mad: lol

I thought the Freddie was Linux BFD isn't the receptor Linux?

[dauzman]

Get a mac and and save your self some grief.... Ive been hearing the same crap why people use a PC for years ...Oh it saves me money....Right... It stops you from doing what you want with your machine... The mac operating system has been stable for years and has pushed the envelope letting artists do what one is able to do with computers... Sorry Tom Had to say it...

[ScutMonkey]

The truth of the matter is the hay day of the module maker is nearly over... As computers get more powerful and cheaper more people will choose this route... I will assure you once a powerful controller at a reasonable cost comes out thats the game changer... Hang on guys its coming sooner then you think...

They should already be there. Slap the ARM chip that cell phones use and a couple gigs of flash memory into a module and then use the samples found is various modern computer programs. Implement a touch screen to select it all easily. Done.

If you could do that for around $100 I can't imagine how that wouldn't sell like crazy.

[Drumlord]

It doesn't seem that anyone has really thought of doing this, but this has worked very well for me.

I love the DTXtreme module. But, like others here, I don't care for the look of the pads. What I did was take the TP120SD apart and remove the bottom plastic piece. The hex key bolts line up perfectly to a 6-lug 12" tom shell. The rubber surface is beveled and fits perfectly inside the shell. Using a snare lug I took the piece that holds the tension rod out of the top of the acoustic drum lug and replaced it with the hex key bolt from the TP. I was able to tighten down the TP head and rim to the shell by sliding the allen wrench through the bottom of the snare lug. Once tightened, I then put the bottom head on the drum as normal.

I'm probably not explaining it very well, but the end result was a TP120SD that is attached to a shell and has a bottom head. I've attached a picture, but it is kind of hard to see. The snare drum is the only drum I've done this to, so far. In the picture, it is the drum on the bottom left.

The new pads are intriguing to me because I think they would look even better mounted on a shell this way. The videos shows a cutaway of the pad and it looks like it is pretty similar in design, so I'm hoping they will fit just as well. I'll be ordering one of the 12" snares when they come out.

I've checked and the TP100 fits perfectly on a 6 lug 10" acoustic drum. I haven't messed with setting it up on a mount, though. I can't find a place to purchase the Yamaha style tom mounts.

[WildWes]

Welcome DL. If you get a chance, I know I'd (and probably everyone else too) love to see better photos of your Yamaha TP conversion. What are the drums your using in the attached photo? WW

[Drumlord]

I'll try to take some better pictures tonight and show how I put it together.

My drumset is DIY, made from some toms I cut in half. I'm pretty sure the lugs are the same ones Mr. Knipe uses on his drums. His shells are far nicer than mine, though. :) It was originally built for my TD-20 but when I got the DTXtreme the rims did not trigger very well, plus I like having the third zone on the drums. I run the lights for my band via MIDI and the DTXtreme works great for that and the third zone allows me to control more light scenes.

Since I couldn't get the rims to work right, this was the next idea that came to mind. I'm used to playing on rubber pads so going back to that after several years of mesh doesn't bother me. Yamaha's new pads are very interesting because I think they'll look even better if done this way.

[WildWes]

I'll try to take some better pictures tonight and show how I put it together.

My drumset is DIY, made from some toms I cut in half. I'm pretty sure the lugs are the same ones Mr. Knipe uses on his drums. His shells are far nicer than mine, though. :) It was originally built for my TD-20 but when I got the DTXtreme the rims did not trigger very well, plus I like having the third zone on the drums. I run the lights for my band via MIDI and the DTXtreme works great for that and the third zone allows me to control more light scenes.

Since I couldn't get the rims to work right, this was the next idea that came to mind. I'm used to playing on rubber pads so going back to that after several years of mesh doesn't bother me. Yamaha's new pads are very interesting because I think they'll look even better if done this way.

Wow! Way above my technical skills, but I find it interesting what you've done with the TP pads. I don't believe I've heard of anyone doing this with the TP pads. Looking forward to more photos. Wes

[dauzman]

I knew it was just a matter of time someone would give a simple application of using MIDI. Thanks DrumLord...Ive Been triggering Arkos VJ using alternating notes and various controller functions to add effects to videos in real time...

[Drumlord]

Here's some pics. The first is a clear shot of the snare all by itself. By looking at the pictures of the new DTX950 pads, I think they'll fit on a shell the same way, but look even better since they don't have the same kind of block on one side (the knob mount looks more subtle) and the rims are chrome. Might make it harder to tell they're rubber pads. I like kits that aren't immediately obvious as being electronic to the average non-drummer.

The second picture is a closeup of the lug. You can see I removed the top tension rod insert and replaced it with the bolt from the TP120. Before putting on the bottom head you can slide an allen wench in through the bottom insert and tighten down the TP to the shell. It is very solid.

I was waiting to see what Yamaha came out with this year before proceeding with customizing any more drums. I will probably try to get the new pads and make shells for the whole kit, except the kick. I like having a full sized kick (though my back might disagree).

As far as the lights go, it isn't as complicated as it sounds. I don't want to jack the thread anymore than I already have so if anyone is interested, I'll be happy to write up how I do it and post a new thread.

[TAKnipe]

Those look awesome all tucked away in there. In my humble opinion the drums look fantastic. Thats a great DIY and an ingenious way to mount the Yammie pads in the shell. Your not hijacking the thread, we are always all over the place anyway. Thanks for posting the pics Drumlord we appreciate it very much.

Thos lugs are called Hayman style lugs.

Your drums remind me of a CAMCO kit, very sweet. Thanks again, Tom

[Hellfire]

Cool! I like the way that looks.

[Drumlord]

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. It is nice to be able to contribute something here since I've learned a lot from all of you (I've been a lurker for a long time). Once I decide which route I'm going to go with the rest of the drums I'll be sure to post some pics.

[Scorch Whammin]

Very cool DIY conversion with the yammie pad!...and welcome to edf!

[Pink Led Rush]

Anyone know when these yammies will be in stores? I've seen a few places with them, but not gc or mf.

[dauzman]

GC has not been a big supporter of Yamaha high end edrum stuff since Roland owns most of their flooring and Musicians friend is owned by GC . I would not expect anything soon. The fact that they own Simmons who has floor space in their stores it might be a while before the throw down money on Yamaha's high end edrums.... Just a educated guess...

[Scorch Whammin]

Anyone know when these yammies will be in stores? I've seen a few places with them, but not gc or mf.

I wouldn't expect to see them before March in the stores....:)

[Pink Led Rush]

I wouldn't expect to see them before March in the stores....:)

Cool, thanks, not that I can afford one anyway. lol But who knows, I might be by then.

[Hellfire]

GC has not been a big supporter of Yamaha high end edrum stuff since Roland owns most of their flooring and Musicians friend is owned by GC . I would not expect anything soon. The fact that they own Simmons who has floor space in their stores it might be a while before the throw down money on Yamaha's high end edrums.... Just a educated guess...
Actually, I was at Guitar Center yesterday. The only kits they had on the floor to try was the Roland kits. They had no Yamaha (I mean none, not even a display bolted to the wall) and the Simmons kits were not set-up to play (they were stuck in a corner folded up).

The funniest thing with GC/Simmons is the on going mystery of the Simmons SD9KR. Every couple of months they say they are carrying them for only a week and then poof! Not released yet. What is even better is when I ask the guy at GC about the SD9KR (which are mounted up on the wall but miss-labeled as just SD9K) He said, "Well, I can order a red one in if that is what you mean but, they are not released yet." For those who don't know what the SD9KR is check out this: Search Result For "sd9kr" (http://www.hellfiredrums.com/index.php?submit.x=0&submit.y=0&s=sd9kr)

I've been reporting these thing since end of June/July. GC needs to figure out what the heck they are doing because, there edrum section sucks.

On a side note. I was at Sam Ash as well. Very good edrum section. They have Yamaha's, Roland's, and Alesis' (DM5 Pro anyway) set-up and ready to play.

And yes, I sat down and tried out the Yamaha's. The rubber pads of the Yamaha are soooo much better than the rubber Roland pads. Even the Simmons SD9K rubber pads felt better than the Roland rubber pads.

Now I just need to get a little money and buy a Dauz to try out.:D

[Pink Led Rush]

What are some places to check out more edrum stuff? I've been to gc several times, but of course they have a limited selection.

[TAKnipe]

How close are you too RMC Audio, I know they carry everything and are really nice people.

In Shelbyville TN, didnt they make Slingerland Drums there for a wee bit of time??? Or was that in Shelbyville NC? I am confused its late.

[Pink Led Rush]

How close are you too RMC Audio, I know they carry everything and are really nice people.

In Shelbyville TN, didnt they make Slingerland Drums there for a wee bit of time??? Or was that in Shelbyville NC? I am confused its late.

Not sure, Slingerland is now made in Nashville I do believe though. Let me look up RMC. So now there's three, GC, RMC, Sam Ash. Oh, and Fork's, but they don't carry much edrum stuff.

[TAKnipe]

GC near me carries Yamaha and Roland, I thought RMC has stuff in stock to try also. I would try to call them and see if they can set up a demo. I am not sure about Forks but Sam Ash has both Yamaha and Roland (all kits). If they dont have them on the floor at the stores nearest you I would call and complain. If you lived closer to me I could take you out on a saturday and have you playing every type od kit imaginable.

I have my acoustic drums at a store near by. Division Street Music, thats why I chose to deal with a smaller store. I like meeting my customers and working closely with people. I think this is the way of the future. Too big is too impersonal. Good Luck, Tom

[Pink Led Rush]

GC near me carries Yamaha and Roland, I thought RMC has stuff in stock to try also. I would try to call them and see if they can set up a demo. I am not sure about Forks but Sam Ash has both Yamaha and Roland (all kits). If they dont have them on the floor at the stores nearest you I would call and complain. If you lived closer to me I could take you out on a saturday and have you playing every type od kit imaginable.

I have my acoustic drums at a store near by. Division Street Music, thats why I chose to deal with a smaller store. I like meeting my customers and working closely with people. I think this is the way of the future. Too big is too impersonal. Good Luck, Tom

Yeah, the local GC around here carries roland, yamaha, and simmons, but doesn't have every kit. They had like all the Roland kits except the td-20, only the SD9K in Simmons ( had like 3 of them) and had two dtxpress IV's. I asked them if they expected a DTXtreme 3 in so I could try one out, and the dude standing there said he had never heard of it. I was like great, why hire someone like you.
I'll give Sam Ash and RMC a look up.

Thanks
Jordan

[Drumlord]

The two Guitar Centers here in St. Louis are the sux when it comes to edrums. Frankly, the one closest to me is the sux in general. I avoid GC for the most part because I hate to listen to 15 year olds beat the crap out of a drumset they'll never be able to afford, but that's just me. At the store in Bridgeton they have the last generation of TD-20, a TD-12, one simmons kit and a DTXplorer. They are assembled wrong (rack parts backward, etc.) and, in the case of Rolands, the mesh heads are nowhere close to properly tuned. Any time I ask them about edrums they know virtually nothing. I would never make a major purchase from GC.

There are two drum specific shops here, as well. Neither of them carry anything substantial in edrums. I have never seen a DTXTreme Special kit at any store around St. Louis (I've never actually seen one in person, at all). Not to even mention Hart, Pintech, DDrum (e kit), Dauz, or Alesis. You'd be amazed how many people that are at my band's shows say "I've never even seen an electronic drum set like your's!!". Yeah? No kidding? Could that be because no one in town carries them? While my drums are DIY there are plenty of kits that look similar by Roland, Hart, Pintech and Dauz. There are others, I'm sure.

I buy 90% of my edrum gear from RMC Audio. They have great prices and their people know what they're talking about and don't try to B.S. you. I think it is pretty sad that no one in my city has anything to purchase locally. I took a big chance buying Yammies without even seeing or hearing one in person. I think they're awesome and am glad I did, but I might have bought the entire Special kit had I been able to see one in the flesh.

[dauzman]

Very True... There are very few retailers out there that are trying to make their customers satisfied these days ...Its all about selling you what they have at the best margin... Its very sad... If your looking for sales info from your local GC your bound to by the crap they have on hand not whats best for you... Do the research ...Check out the forums ... and dont trust the local GC or Sam Ash unless you know who you are dealing with... There are a few retailers who deserve your business but they are hard to find....

[Pink Led Rush]

Very True... There are very few retailers out there that are trying to make their customers satisfied these days ...Its all about selling you what they have at the best margin... Its very sad... If your looking for sales info from your local GC your bound to by the crap they have on hand not whats best for you... Do the research ...Check out the forums ... and dont trust the local GC or Sam Ash unless you know who you are dealing with... There are a few retailers who deserve your business but they are hard to find....

Yes, I'm sure I won't do the buying from them. Just want to be able to sit down and play different kits before I get too hasty. I have my heart set on a dtx 3, but I haven't seen or played one in person yet. So I may play it and not like it at all. So going to hit up a few of these places sometime.

Like the one guy was saying about his gc, I went into our nearest one playing some of the drums, went to the td12 and sat down and began to play. The sensitivity on the kick drum was turned all the way down so it wasn
t triggering until I messed with it. One cymbal wasn't hooked up and one of the other ones wasn't screwed down. None of the simmons were set up even remotely playable. And the yammies IV were ok, but you had to hit the pads way to hard to trigger. Couldn't get that fixed either.

[CaTaPulT]

Agreed.
The problem with music stores is the staff a lot of the time, not always though since there are some (few) good sales people out there.
eDrums are a different breed, a customer can sit at the kit, not knowing what he's doing and start messing with settings in the module and on the pads (Yamaha's gain control knobs (TP120/100) and so on and then leave the kit a total mess when he exits the store.
One would think it would be up the the music store's sales staff that after someone is done trying out a demo kit to go check that kit, do a factory reset (10 seconds once you know how to do it) and make sure the pads knobs or dials have not been messed with, if so, re-adjust them, 2 minutes.
I'm sure many eKit sales have been lost because a particular eKit played horribly or sounded terrible for these reasons. After all, many acoustic drummers might be a little skeptical about eDrums, when they play one that is set up all wrong and sound terrible, then that just verifies their skepticism and they leave the store saying "I was right, I don't need eDrums, they're pathetic".
Would a automobile dealership treat the product they are trying to sell this way? I think not.
Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

[Pink Led Rush]

Yes, if I owned a store that carried edrums, I would probably have a tech who went around checking stuff to make sure everything was in order. What's funny about gc is they always have their acoustic sets set up perfectly. All the snares on the rack are tuned properly, but yet they are clueless when it comes to the e's. Your right not all stores are like that, I walked into nashville new and used music and I went over to the drums and I was immediately greeted by one of the guys who was working there ( who was a drummer by the way) and I told him what I was looking for he gave some advice and I gave him my number so he could let me know if something ever came in. Really nice guy. Honestly music stores need to pay more attention to they hire and make sure they get a kind, helpful, knowledgeable guy behind the counter.

[Pink Led Rush]

Yeah, went on rmc's website, but couldn't find where I could find local stores. Anyone know where that would be?

[ScutMonkey]

Yes, if I owned a store that carried edrums, I would probably have a tech who went around checking stuff to make sure everything was in order. What's funny about gc is they always have their acoustic sets set up perfectly. All the snares on the rack are tuned properly, but yet they are clueless when it comes to the e's. Your right not all stores are like that, I walked into nashville new and used music and I went over to the drums and I was immediately greeted by one of the guys who was working there ( who was a drummer by the way) and I told him what I was looking for he gave some advice and I gave him my number so he could let me know if something ever came in. Really nice guy. Honestly music stores need to pay more attention to they hire and make sure they get a kind, helpful, knowledgeable guy behind the counter.

1. The probably can't afford what you describe most of the time.
2. They have to hire musicians.

As the old quote goes, "I became a musician so I could sleep till noon and party the rest of the time." I've been in the work force for almost 25 years now and I've worked in a lot of fields. Musicians are easily the laziest and least responsible people I've ever dealt with (as a group - there are always exceptions) or worked with.

Combine that with the fact that the pay for doing sales work is garbage and you have a recipe for disaster. My brother in law is a Sax player who worked at Guitar Center for a year or so to supplement his income. He has a music degree from college and knows his stuff. Do you know what GC loved most about him? He showed up. That's what the managers constantly complained about. Getting employees to show up. Just sad.

[dschrammie]

...Musicians are easily the laziest and least responsible people I've ever dealt with (as a group - there are always exceptions) or worked with...

well, I understand that your statement says "that you've ever dealt with"...and that you say there are always exceptions. But wow that's a really broad, general statement. I'd bet the odds are likely that any of the musicians for any of the symphonies in the world would take a great deal of offense to that...as well as any of the musicians in world that depend on that line of work as their source of income to care for their families...and the musicians in any of the many the military bands...or musicians that play for the pure love of making music and have day jobs that aren't music related....etc etc etc.

I know what you probably meant...however, I think your "exceptions", the musicians that aren't lazy and irresponsible, comprise a MUCH larger group than you give credit.

[Drumlord]

To be fair, it isn't just Guitar Center. It is funny that a lot of musicians want to work at music stores because they love their instrument but never take into consideration the fact that there might be people involved (and no hot girls that come in and flash them....)

I think the biggest problem facing the edrum industry is drummers themselves. We've all gotten the "get some real drums" from fellow drummers, but it is everywhere in the retail market, as well. There is a privately owned drum shop right down the street from my house. It has been there since I was a little kid (I'm in my early 40's) and has very knowledgable edrum-bigots working there. They can tell you exactly how many plies of what material were in every single line of Slingerlands since their inception but mention edrums and they give you the "we don't sell toy drums here" attitude. None of them has ever heard of anyone but Roland and Yamaha. And then they only refer to Yamaha edrums like the inbred bastard child of a Recording Custom.

I think the new Yamaha kit is cool. Then I think all of Yamaha's edrums have been great. The Original DTXtreme is easily the best looking factory-made edrum kit ever made. I love Roland kits, too. Pintech, Hart, Dauz, Alesis, and many others. All cool stuff! (I'm an edrum geek, whatofit? :p ) Since the fall of Drumbalaya there isn't even an internet based edrum-oriented store (that I know of). I think many of these companies have done well at taking advantage of the internets to demo their products, but there is nothing like holding it. That may just be something I need to get over.

[Scorch Whammin]

The Original DTXtreme is easily the best looking factory-made edrum kit ever made.


I agree with you on that one...:)

http://edrumforum.com/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=283

[Drumlord]

I agree with you on that one...:)

http://edrumforum.com/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=283

Oh, sure, throw it up in my face! :D You definitely have an awesome kit. It is one of my favorites.

[Pink Led Rush]

Scott's kit is definitely my favorite out there. I don't know I've met plenty of responsible musicians out there. There is always a few bad in the bunch, but for the most part the people that really love music, care.

Take care guys,
Pink

[dauzman]

Now Ive been making edrums since the 80's ( Im in my late 40's ) I totally agree with you Kurt on the stigma that has gone along with edrums since there inception . I remember going to clubs and stores trying to get possible users to check out my products... Damn I felt like I was the anti-Christ. It got to be quite the little game pegging someones response before I even spoke to them. Its much easier to sell edrums to musicians then drummers.... Very frustrating ....

[Pink Led Rush]

Yes, of course almost everyone has been reluctant to edrums. Neil Peart even didn't want to really use them, he didn't think of them as his drums just more stuff he could add in songs. He slowly warmed up to them though, and of course you've seen his kit now.

[Drumlord]

That's a real shame, Dauzman. I remember seeing some of your pads in a local store here (which closed several years ago) and thinking they we build like tanks. I wish now that I'd bought them because I know I'd still have them and they'd still work.

I work with several drummers who still use antique drums and we have some spirited discussions about the merits of edrums. They were all in the "fake drums" camp until they came out to see my band and got a look and earful. They still prefer antiques, but most have said they might consider e's for either home studios or gigging. One plays in a working band, too, and would get one but he'd have to quit drinking to save the money (nice segue back to the responsible musician discussion, eh?).

I guess we are the best edrum salespeople out there.

[JohnDiFrancesco]

With respect to the "lazy musician" stereotype, I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy if you get your sample from a typical music store. It would be more accurate to say that the subset of musicians that tend to work in music stores are lazy, rather than to extrapolate that most musicians are lazy based on the few lazy ones who work in music stores. It's like deciding something about "most chefs" by observing only McDonald's line cooks.

I'd bet that most dedicated, hard-working musicians are probably employed in bands, orchestras, doing studio work, and/or teaching, leaving the lazy wannabees to work in local stores (the musical equivalent of a fast food chain).

[dschrammie]

With respect to the "lazy musician" stereotype, I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy if you get your sample from a typical music store. It would be more accurate to say that the subset of musicians that tend to work in music stores are lazy, rather than to extrapolate that most musicians are lazy based on the few lazy ones who work in music stores. It's like deciding something about "most chefs" by observing only McDonald's line cooks.

I'd bet that most dedicated, hard-working musicians are probably employed in bands, orchestras, doing studio work, and/or teaching, leaving the lazy wannabees to work in local stores (the musical equivalent of a fast food chain).

Well said!
and welcome to the site! ;)

[ScutMonkey]

With respect to the "lazy musician" stereotype, I think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy if you get your sample from a typical music store. It would be more accurate to say that the subset of musicians that tend to work in music stores are lazy, rather than to extrapolate that most musicians are lazy based on the few lazy ones who work in music stores. It's like deciding something about "most chefs" by observing only McDonald's line cooks.

It's more than that. My guitar player and I advertised for a bass player and a singer in the local Creative Loafing years ago. People would call and say they were coming over and never show. They would be an hour or more late and think nothing of it. They would come over baked out of their mind or on speed or coked out of their heads. They would actually come into a stranger's home and offer them drugs as part of the interview process. Maybe I'm a huge prude but I find that to be sheer lunacy. At least we got it out of the way in the early stages so I knew what I was getting into.

And how many gigs have you worked or gone to see where someone in your band or one of the other acts just didn't show up? How many times have you been called to replace a band that canceled at the very last minute and left a club high and dry? Would you walk into a board meeting at a typical job drunk? High? Unable to actually play? Happens in music all the time.

And yes, I'm talking about Rock musicians. I'm sure symphony musicians are a whole different thing.

I'd bet that most dedicated, hard-working musicians are probably employed in bands, orchestras, doing studio work, and/or teaching, leaving the lazy wannabees to work in local stores (the musical equivalent of a fast food chain).

Which is why they find better work than a music store and which is why you have people on message boards complaining that they can't find a decent e-drum set configured correctly when they walk into GC.

"You get what you pay for."

[Alpine]

The best epad for the least amount of acoustic noise is by far the new DTX-PAD from Yamaha. Amazing feel and super quite, much better than mesh heads or rubber pads! http://dtxdrums.yamaha.com/products/dtxdrums/dtx950k/

[dauzman]

There are other things out there you have not tried.... I'm sure their great next to the previous stuff you have tried but it is just your opinion based on what you have played :)...

[Alpine]

I think what I have is already there... Quality Keller shell, Soft gum rubber quiet playing surface, Acoustic look, Changeable heads, Solid hardware, Pads just got sent to XXX manufacture for trigger settings to match a new powerful controller at a reasonable price. More info to come on a release in 2010.... Stay tuned... I would love to see / play them! Are you at NAMM?

[dauzman]

No NAMM anymore.... I used to do NAMM every year till it just was no longer worth it... Even though alot of people check out who is at NAMM as a manufacture it just didnt make any sense to do it once retailers stopped stocking anything but Roland,Yamaha and Alesis. Thats why I sell direct just as Alternate Mode does... After so many years of playing the retail game became pointless... The retailer always win and the smaller manufacture and the customer lose ...Same old story big business cuts off innovation and a few big companies run the show... If anyone wants to see more cool new stuff happen stop drinking the Kool Aid don't shop at Guitar Center or Sam Ash and dont buy into the hype of Roland, Yamaha and Alesis ....It only costs more,you get less and makes it harder for real innovations to get to the consumer... Sorry for the rant....

[Alpine]

I don't know if I would go that far..I don't think the pads look that bad...however, that being said......:)

We'll see on the hay day of the module maker...I don't know about that...to my mind there's too many people that like the simplicity (and reliabilty) of a module....that's one of the reasons Roland modules are so popular...they're simple to use...and pretty easy to get good sounds out of them especially if you use vex...heck, you don't even really have to (hardly) know how to operate a roland module (as far as editing goes)...just order a vex pack....and I'm not meaning that to be a knock on vex...they do a great job with their tweaks!...but it seems to me that alot of people in the e-drumming community like to keep it simple.... Using an edrum system with software with a laptop couldn't be simpler and will always sound far superior. YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

[dauzman]

No real innovation done by RET even though Mikey VPT has informed alot of people this is available... Anyone can put the pieces together. Like I said in previous posts its about the controller and a Alesis Trigger IO is to limited...

[Alpine]

Its encouraging that RET is into software based systems with helpful video's for edrummers to get up and running! If the Trigger IO is too limited what would you recommend? http://www.youtube.com/user/retpercussion

[dauzman]

Yes its great RET percussion is helping educate players of the software option... I would wait for the DITI from alternate mode... Its a major upgrade to Trigger interface technology...

[Alpine]

Yes its great RET percussion is helping educate players of the software option... I would wait for the DITI from alternate mode... Its a major upgrade to Trigger interface technology... Yes I just found out about that, it looks great! http://www.hellfiredrums.com/archives/795 I plan on using it along with the new Yamaha Silicone DTX-Pads, I already have the Presonus Firestudio Mobile, Macbook Pro, external Glyph hard drive with Fxpansion, Toontrack, & XLN Audio VST software so I should be good.